Thanks, Greg, Isobel. Funny you should pick up on "to when I'm". It was added late, to make the poem more explicit. Really, I prefer just

I'm looking after you - stationed....

Yeah, it's about fostering, moving children on.

Comment is about Looking After You (blog)

Hi Ray,

Our Day Out...as capitalised... was a play wriiten in the late 1970s by Willy Russell about deprived kids growing up in deprived Liverpool. The play was recorded for television in the 1980s. This was the time I was growing up in the same city on one of its poorer housing estates.

The play starts out as a coach trip, but the plot darkens when it becomes obvious that the kids from the back streets of Liverpool, have little to no hope in terms of a future. The picture is painted that they are no-hopers; that a day trip is as good as anything is going to get for them...they'll soon be back on the estates.

In one scene at a zoo there is a bear in a bear pit.

The scene starts off when one of the kids asks a teacher if the bear could kill you. The teacher replies saying “Well why do you think it kept in a pit?” Another kid joins the conversation by saying “ I think it is cruel don’t you?” The teacher replies to him saying that it is not if it is treated well. “No. Not if its treated well. And don’t forget it was born in captivity so it won’t know any other sort of life”


A kid replies "It must know other ways of living, sir. Y’know, free, like the way people have stopped it livin’. It only kills people cos it’s trapped an’ people are looking at it. If it was free it wouldn’t bother people at all.”

The kids like the bear are trapped. The kids can't escape a poor background in Liverpool and likely can't escape a poor future as a result.n The bear will be in the pit for all his life, like the kids In Liverpool, and will be treated the same way, and will be living the same way for the rest of their life. The bear doesn’t learn anything good other than, try and scare humans off, when they are being cruel, the kids don't learn much different.

It also includes the idea that the bear if placed in better surroundings would still be just as dangerous, still a bear. The analogy is clear; you can take the boy out of the ghetto, but you can't take the ghetto out of the boy. In other words there is no point in giving these kids (kids like these) a chance or a better home...they'll just be what they are anyway. (how more wrong could an idea be?)

I saw the kids that grew up before me on the estates, I saw that half of them had zero education. I was very fortunate to have very well educated parents in the home. But I saw a disproportionate number of kids from the estates were in remedial classes...like the play. I saw how the estates promoted the idea that school and homework was for losers and that it didn't matter anyway as there was no hope academically. I also saw that a lot of bad lads turned out...not surprising!

Fighting was a daily routine on the estates, but you could and would get battered if all the kids thought you were a 'suck'...which means someone pushing to do well at school. The pressure was to conform and that conformity was, play out late, play footy, jump across bin sheds. Play hideO on the roof of the old people's home, break into houses or the local school, and most importantly mess about in school.

I got to escape this background when Michael Heseltine came to Liverpool as Tory minister and they found the conditions...to not be fit to live in. The estates were knocked down and we moved... as I said into real housing. Oddly for the first couple of years I didn't know what to do without having bin sheds to jump across (I know that might sound quite mad) and green space and back gardens were confusing lol. Back on point...

You might not be able to take bears out of bear pits, but you can take children out of deprived conditions and things can as a result...improve greatly.

Our day out for me was in getting OUT and not suffering a future like those before me on that estate or like kids in that play.

P.S

I can see what your saying about the line changes, but I like the sprung rhythm that currently exists. That said, I have added two commas and a semicolon. Hopefully this makes for superior sonic units, whilst retaining meaning and rhythm. Thoughts appreciated...I always do consider tweeks.

Comment is about Our day out (blog)

Original item by Chris Co

Thanks all for your constructive comments.
There is nothing in them I would reject or dispute so during some inspired hour I will do some more work on this one.

Comment is about Thirlmere in May (blog)

This has the makings of a superb poem with its lovely, colourful descriptions. And yet, the lack of rhythmic consistency detracts from its enjoyment, for me anyhow. And yet just a little editing could bring such rhythm as the voluptuous description demands.
The word 'merge' perhaps needs an 's' as it seems to need to be in agreement with 'bark', singular. That said, it is one of only two lines containing verbs, which upsets the lovely flow. Might you consider turning the verbs into adjectives: Sable and puce, grey-marbled, for example?

Comment is about Thirlmere in May (blog)

I really like this, Tommy. It's poetic and hints at a story arc within few words.

I would agree you might think about dropping 'mainly'. Adverbs are often superfluous in poetry as good as this. How about also replacing 'became' with 'now', and swopping 'your smile' for 'a smile'?

Or does that turn it from your poem into mine? If so, apols.

This is the sort of poetry I like, essential, spare, interesting.

Comment is about A Lady's dismissal (blog)

Original item by Tommy Carroll

Hello Glyn. No connections, just a few short pieces.

Comment is about Get Shorty (blog)

a breath of fresh air Nick, thankyou

Comment is about MAN-MADE MECHANIZATIONS (blog)

Original item by NICK ARMBRISTER

All Happening in Kernow it seems. Have a great time :-)

Comment is about Head for St Ives for poetry in the square (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

Hi Alexandros, Michael does sometimes read at The Puzzle (And has been a past guest) but I am not in regular contact with him. As I suspect you know, his work and the delivery of it are spellbinding. Win

Review is about Puzzle Poets Live at the Blind Pig on 7 May 2012 (event)

I like the concept of this poem - I agree with Glyn about the lines he mentioned and perhaps 'I am hopeful.....would be better as the penultimate line.
Because of the repetitive nature of this piece I was looking for a little something else within it. I half expected to see a kind of acrostic word formed from all the alliterative letters ( that would be great but hard work and probably need a great deal of rejigging) but it may be something you bear in mind for a different poem. XX

Comment is about Am I a Son of God? (blog)

Original item by Emma-Jane Stradling

I'd totally echo what Greg said. I have a work colleague who fosters - letting go of the children to new parents, who are not always as skilled at raising difficult children, seems to be the most painful thing; letting go of them at all must be hard when you've formed a bond.

Your poem made me feel that ache. I think you express it all beautifully. If I was to be picky - I would just replace 'to when I'm' with 'till when I'm'

Isobel x

Comment is about Looking After You (blog)

Does anybody know when Michael greavy will next be reading at an Event ?

Review is about Puzzle Poets Live at the Blind Pig on 7 May 2012 (event)

Hi, Shirley I am pleased I was able to help you and happy that you were able to rescue your poem
XX

Comment is about Shirley Smothers (poet profile)

Original item by Shirley Smothers

Hi Glyn. Well I should update my profile as I've now managed to read my work out twice now! I must admit that I lost my nerve and pulled out on Tuesday but it just didn't feel right. Apart from that I'm glad I read my poems out and I think they went down well. I sat back down so fast im not sure! Hope it goes well for you.

I'll have a look at your poetry. Is it your poem The King of Thorns that you'd like me to read?

Comment is about Glyn Pope (poet profile)

Original item by Glyn Pope

a telescope has an invisible statement wrote on the side 'Use Me!'

this reminds me of my old telescope when i was a teen. many memories brought on by this.

Comment is about Telescopes and Things (blog)

Original item by Isobel

Glyn that's so nice to hear. It's really great to know that someone else gets what I'm saying. Given me the incentive to keep writing.

Comment is about BERBERIS (blog)

Original item by Emma-Jane Stradling

theres a lot in this, like a what you call it, a microcosm/macrocosm (large/small) thing about life. planets and people even. very different read:)

Comment is about No. 4 (blog)

Original item by Isobel

Yes thank you for your comments Glyn.

Now I look at it box of chocolates line is terrible!

I'll have an edit & see what I can do. I'm glad you liked the idea.

Comment is about Am I a Son of God? (blog)

Original item by Emma-Jane Stradling

hi Shirley thanx for replying, yes i like your poems. glad you resolved your issue, things like that are important:)

Comment is about NICK ARMBRISTER (poet profile)

Original item by NICK ARMBRISTER

Very clever Mrs.B!
and very funny.

Thank you.
Patricia and Stef.xx

Comment is about House Hunting (blog)

Original item by Yvonne Brunton

Stokes Croft or Gloucester Road familiar? recognise name/profile pic

Comment is about SPACEGHOST (poet profile)

Original item by SPACEGHOST

I've got to read out loud for the first time in September. I'm rehearing what I've going to say already. I'm terrified.

Comment is about Emma-Jane Stradling (poet profile)

Original item by Emma-Jane Stradling

I've read three of your poems. And I'm, well words fail me. I love this. It just completely speaks to me. I love it.

Comment is about BERBERIS (blog)

Original item by Emma-Jane Stradling

I like this because i like a poem that makes me think.
I feel you could find a better way of saying this 'It might make you woozy,'
Id be interested, Emma-Jane in what you think abut my poem Crown of Thorns.

Comment is about God is looking for action (blog)

Original item by Emma-Jane Stradling

For quite a serious well written poem in the most part this line is dreadful

'I am chosen like choosing a caramel from a box of chocolates.'

Find something better to say. Also not as strongly, I find this line a bit clumsy

'I am unfastened, I understand, unlike ugly friends who choose not to.'

Though overall it's a great idea for a poem, but it cud be improved. Give it some thought. My criticisms are kindly meant.

Comment is about Am I a Son of God? (blog)

Original item by Emma-Jane Stradling

I can't see the connections. I have no argument with them as little individual snaps.

Comment is about Get Shorty (blog)

First reading I thought this guys swallowed a thesaurus. But, because you overdo the language it works.

Comment is about Thirlmere in May (blog)

I think you've got something here Tommy. It certainly captures a certain indefinable something.

Personally I would drop the would mainly, it loses a tad in qualification but gains a lot sonically and in turn of phrase appeals a little more.

Good write

Chris

Comment is about A Lady's dismissal (blog)

Original item by Tommy Carroll

Hi Nick. Thank you for your comments on my poem "Kids With Drugs-2". Sorry it took so long to get back to you. I have been distracted. I found one of my poems on another website but was not given credit for this poem. The situation has been resolved. I have even posted a haiku "Stolen Poem" about my experience. Also thanks for your comments on my poem. "The Sea".

Thank you again for your nice comments.
Shirley

Comment is about NICK ARMBRISTER (poet profile)

Original item by NICK ARMBRISTER

Thank you for your help and advice on my stolen poem. I was able to prove that the poem is mine. The website took it down. I have even written a haiku "Stolen Poem" about my experience.
I would not have had a problem with my poem being posted on this website if I had been given proper credit.

Thank you again for your help.
Shirley

Comment is about Yvonne Brunton (poet profile)

Original item by Yvonne Brunton

Hi Yvonne,

Thx for reading and commenting upon my latest poem- very much appreciated.

I think what you said was very pertinent and on the mark. I've left a very loooong and waffling comment upon the poem.

Far from concise but it might give people an idea where I'm comming from.

My Best

Chris

Comment is about Yvonne Brunton (poet profile)

Original item by Yvonne Brunton

Thank you for your advice on my stolen poem.
I took the advice of Yvonne Bruton and was able to prove the poem is mine. The website took down the poem. I have even written a haiku "Stolen Poem" about this experience.
I would not have had a problem with the website if I had been properly credited.
Thanks for your help

Shirley

Comment is about M.C. Newberry (poet profile)

Original item by M.C. Newberry

Hi Laura,

Thx for commenting upon my latest poem- very much appreciated.

I've left a looong comment back on the poem hehe.

P.S

Are we still good for next months 'spoke'?

Best

Chris

Comment is about Laura Taylor (poet profile)

Original item by Laura Taylor

Hi M.C,

Thx for commenting a couple of times on my latest poem. We may not agree on our politics...but I do thank you for both reading and commenting upon the poem- very much appreciated.

Best

Chris

Comment is about M.C. Newberry (poet profile)

Original item by M.C. Newberry

Hi everyone- thx for reading and commenting- appreciated.

Warning- very long comment...

Where to start? lol

I guess when we write poetry, we open up a can of worms. In not writing in a detailed explicit way; the very thing that is great about poetry also creates headaches lol. The curse of valid, yet entirely different 'interpretations'. I joke, but you know what I mean.

In writing this poem I mentioned one particular newspaper and their politics as by way of implying their implied values. But it wasn't my intention for the Daily Mail to be the point of the poem. I could have just as easily hung my hat and language on the Daily Express or TalkSport radio (at least when it had right wing shock jock radio shows). I picked one paper that to me was indicative and representative of the issues I wanted to deal in. I used the Daily Mail in one line; representatively to go on to speak about people affected by the tabloid right wing press and right wing radio.

As I see it these nefarious organisations sear their misogynistic, racist, homophobic and scaremongering attacks on minorities (underhand right agenda) into the national conscience. Their overt and implied values seep down into their target audience and help to misinform a great number of people (often the least informed to begin with) and the results of this are far from pleasant.

How many times have you got into a taxi and had a conversation instigated about immigration and getting ‘them out’? How many times have you had that conversation where you know the individual concerned has been primed by the agenda of these forces? How many times has that conversation gone along where you have come to realize that the person you are speaking to; has no understanding of the difference between asylum seekers and economic migrants?

How many times have you got into a conversation with someone relating to Muslims; where the word Muslim has a negative connotation attached to it, that being either terrorism or immigrant? How many times have you spoken to, watched or listened to a debate on the welfare system or the health care system and heard working class people in effect mouthing right wing policies? Polices that in no way shape or form would be representative of their socio-economic interests? How many times have you heard welfare blamed for the cause of all woes?

Just to give you some figures on the latter, something that I hope to afford reasoned comment to;

The cost of welfare fraud to the UK is 1.6 billion pounds- fact. Pretty high until you consider that that tax fraud cost the UK economy 14 billion pounds- another fact. Tax avoidance (perfectly legal- though immoral) costs the UK economy an estimated 90 billion pounds. The only figure there that is an estimate is the last one; the other two are government figures.

So given the above, why does the Daily mail, The Daily Express, TalkSport etc...Why have the focused almost exclusively on welfare costs over and above the much more significant tax fraud or the issue of tax avoidance? More importantly, why is it that the welfare story is pretty much the only one of those three stories they cover? Back to the conversation at the bus stop, the talk with the mechanic on getting your car mot, the taxi ride home, the chat in the pub etc...guess what we hear? Do we hear about tax fraud? Do we hear about tax avoidance? or do we hear about welfare cheats?

When it comes to the pensions debate, do we hear about public pensions in a positive light in these very same types of conversation? My experience is- no. Same goes for NHS and cutbacks. Everything in my experience is coloured in the same pissy light. The agenda of these organisations has seemingly coloured everything.

It has become an expectation to hear many fellow working class people mouthing right wing, narrow minded politics. These papers sell themselves to the working class and once they're read or listened to; they seep into peoples minds and misinform in the way Fox News does in the US.

I feel sorry for the person in this poem and everyone out there who has this mantra.
I despise their viewpoints on the world, viewpoints that are ludicrously simplistic (almost child-like) skewed and warped beyond all reality.

BUT!

I can at least have respect for honest right wing views (this next bit is important) presented in a GENUINE way for adults. But there is nothing honest about the way these organisations peddle their agenda. They do not say what they are and they deliberately dumb-down and write what Aristotle would call 'the noble lie'. That is to say; they are quite prepared to misrepresent reality with shocking propaghanda.
They are quite willing to use anecdotes and a whole host of logical fallacies, such as ad hominem, non sequiturs etc anything to get the job done...to sell ring wing policy to their target audience. This is why these papers are mocked so disparagingly by the genuine right, center and left.

Sorry for waffling so much.

I can see how putting up the picture of Richard LittleJohn helped to aid the interpretation of this poem being solely about the Daily Mail. If you think/take the 'you' mentioned in the poem as either the Daily Mail or Richard Littlejohn rather than a 3rd person influenced by the tabloid right; this is an entirely valid way to interpret the poem...just not my intention.

P.S

Although no paper can be said to be lacking bias (not even an honest historian or translator can strictly be said to be lacking bias). We have to be very careful of not affording moral equivalence where it is not warranted. The centrist or papers of the left are bias, bias in the same way other broadsheets of the right are bias. But they do have much higher standards of journalistic practice than the papers we are talking about here. They are not treated with derision across the board in private quarters by the left and the right the way these papers are. Few other media organisations cause the very real and worrying social problems that these papers do.

All my opinion of course.

I think we have all met the person in this poem- agree or not about the source of their views.

If you got to the end of this agree or not with my politics- well done and thx for reading the poem.

Best Chris

Comment is about Right Thinking (blog)

Original item by Chris Co

Nice poem. I liked
I wouldn’t have wanted to fight anywhere else!
Ending is good, too.
Odd choice of title, I thought. Implies holidays, to me anyhow.Some of the lines are a bit long e.g. I'd end the first one at boredom.
To get out and escape - same thing?

Comment is about Our day out (blog)

Original item by Chris Co

Hi Isobel,

Thx for reading and commenting on the poem.
Very much appreciated. I've left a response on the blog.

My Best

Chris

Comment is about Isobel (poet profile)

Original item by Isobel

Hi Isobel,

I know what you mean about scale and walking everywhere, life did indeed feel more contained back then. I can't say with any certainty why I felt as I did.

I think it might have stemmed from teenage conciousness (finding awareness) and the feeling of having something to lose having gained a real home.

Comment is about Our day out (blog)

Original item by Chris Co

Certainly a most descriptive view of its subject, and having been on my share of walks
in such surroundings, the "picture" painted by these words was very familiar.
Tell me...is "ebon" short for "ebony"(black).
Not sure but it seems so to me.
Oh - loved the picture.

Comment is about Thirlmere in May (blog)

It is my view that the popular press might be
summed up (political leanings aside) as...
Rudely reprehensible,
Impolitely indispensable.

Comment is about Right Thinking (blog)

Original item by Chris Co

If you are sure the content is yours, then you
have copyright on your side. The least the
website could do is credit the entry to you.
Obviously, it helps if you can back your claim with a reference to its origins and any previous publication. Poetry seems to be "fair
game" for some, as if it is some "free for all"
to which anyone is entitled to benefit. Not
that publication is a bad thing BUT the author
should be approached for permission IF known.

Comment is about Someone has stolen my poem (blog)

Original item by Shirley Smothers

An off-the-wall take on the hassle of buying a home. Short...and very sharp!

Comment is about House Hunting (blog)

Original item by Yvonne Brunton

Well, it's nothing if not descriptive. That's just a slight dig, I enjoyed the language. The length of lines 4, 6 and 11 causes a bit of a bump.

Comment is about Thirlmere in May (blog)

Very moving, Ray. Steady, careful rhythm. I'm thinking it relates to your fostering.

Comment is about Looking After You (blog)

Thanks, Yvonne and Steve.A bit of fun and, yes, probably better spoken than read. Needs diluting too.

Comment is about Bathos (blog)

Cynthia, thanks for your perceptive comments on The Show. Appreciated.

Comment is about Cynthia Buell Thomas (poet profile)

Original item by Cynthia Buell Thomas

Cheers, Laura

Comment is about Laura Taylor (poet profile)

Original item by Laura Taylor

Oh Ray, you had me going with this one. the play on words is wonderful and the last line sews it up so neatly. Then I suddenly realised what the title was. XX

Comment is about Bathos (blog)

Oho, vitriolic indeed! But is any paper unbiased? Since the Mail is so popular It is preaching to(or subliminally persuading) a captive audience. Should this actually be allowed?
Is one of the reasons for your outpourings, Chris, linked to the fact that, as a poet, you know/feel the power of words far more sensitively than your average Mail reader.
We are surrounded by subliminal propaganda which I do not think is a very moral or ethical approach to the dissemination of information.

Comment is about Right Thinking (blog)

Original item by Chris Co

actually when I was songwriting I was advised to make a recording and post it to myself by recorded delivery and never open it as evidence of when it was created. I guess nowadays when you save anything on your computer the date/time is automatically recorded.

Comment is about Someone has stolen my poem (blog)

Original item by Shirley Smothers