Brilliant line, that opener, Harry.
...and who are you calling flaccid?

Comment is about (blog)

Original item by Harry O`N eill

Just for the record: She wouldn`t have anything to do with me.

But (damn all the pain) It`s Valentines day.

Comment is about (blog)

Original item by Harry O`N eill

Hello Francine, many thanks for taking the trouble to read Lovebird.
With regard to the comment about the reflection, what was in my minds eye was the idea that if one could only see oneself doing damage, it might be a salutary lesson learnt.

I never change work as you have noted but I really am pleased that other poets take the time to critique. I am sure it helps to mould further work.

my very best regards,

Graham

Comment is about Francine (poet profile)

Original item by Francine

great and feelingsome poem

Comment is about Wendy Cope's poem to her husband - and why she got married in the end (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

Happy Valentine's Day!

Comment is about Love At First Sight (blog)

Original item by Larisa Rzhepishevska

Really like the title and third stanza of this!

Comment is about Love in the Cosmos (blog)

Original item by jane wilcock

lovely. that's set up my karma for the day.

Comment is about Deemed Rapture (blog)

Original item by Sunny Chopra

Hi M.C.

I've been retired for twenty eight years, and used up all my pot. but thanks to the re-distribution of the M.C. millions, I look forward to the future with confidence. Ta.

Comment is about M.C. Newberry (poet profile)

Original item by M.C. Newberry

Quote
Of course, we are ALL consumers. But setting
the scenario and allocating "guilt" is one
thing. Supplying a solution in a complicated
world, another entirely.
Unquote

Of course we are all consumers - I don't think so M.C, not in the way I have implied.

I have implied that we all part of the problem, but can all - to a degree be part of a solution - or part solution. There is absolutely NOTHING obvious about this usage at all!

Your limited and literal interpretation is FAR less than I have implied and lacks all nuance and understanding.

Moving on from which;

To suggest that any poet, or any one person has all the answers, or 'THE ANSWER' would be, frankly ridiculous M.C. Yet that is what you are attacking me for - for lacking the impossible, for not claiming the impossible.

Of course there isn't a 'single solution'. But then again, I never said there was - something else you have via implication leant against me.

What I have done is tried to raise consciousness, in terms of the decisions we make. That we, as in everyone can to a degree take ownership of the problem - be part of a solutions of sorts that arise from the KEY step (of accepting we are part of the system, the issue and can be part of the solution).

I have done that rather than simply allocate blame, political or otherwise. If you can't understand that, if you can't reach that understanding - my poem is wasted on you. You have been informed, whether you have understood that or not is for you - not me.

I have poetically implied, that the problem is ours - that it stems from our demand. If you can't from there get from A to B and come to understand that as consumers, we have choices? That we can change our buying habits and vote with our wallet to affect a positive difference...

I can lead a horse to water, but...

Now when it comes to consumer choice;

Whether you like that or not it ABSOLUTELY is a solution of sorts, in that it can, and in fact DOES affect positive change - again whether you like it or not.

Again feeling the need to constantly re-iterate in the absence of understanding...

I wont be lectured on not offering a solution for all circumstances and all world ills of a global, socio-economic basis. The task at hand was to poetically raise consciousness and make people think - which can make a difference.

I wont be lectured for raising a solution of sorts that can and does affect positive change. I wont be told off for that, no matter how hard you try to lay false interpretations and false meaning at my door.

Quote
Your aim seems to be primarily at conditions in rag trade sweat shops
Unquote

That is the literal nature of the poem, and a surface understanding.

But that is not the only aim. If you can't see how this opens up a discussion into other related areas and issues of consumer ethics, using the poem as a starting point - then you have lack imagination. One person has already replied to me in private regarding just this. His related ideas and thinking was most enlightening.

Quote
Your aim seems to be primarily at conditions in
rag trade sweat shops - and I can think of a few countries that fit the bill - in which wages
paid to employees are very low indeed. How
to address those sorry situations is another
matter altogether in lands steeped in various
ways of life and varied cultures.
Unquote

Actually supply and demand depends upon demand - first and foremost. Anyone who knows basic supply chain economics understands this. Consumers can, if in the know, if they are conscious of the issues at hand; make decisions based upon ethics.

Ethical considerations can, if the consumer chooses be as big a buying factor as price point, quality etc - anything!

If you doubt this, all I can say is - where is the fur trade in the UK?

Like I have said it is all about consciousness raising, that is te KEY step. From there we can have informed buying decisions where ethics plays its part. In a market place, the products and services that people want survive and those that people do not want go to the wall. It is adapt and survive - or die. With enough pressure, this affects multi-national conglomerates irrespective of industry. This an affect everything from Primark wages in Bangladesh to the actions of agro-business in South America.

Of course consumer choice is a very powerful tool in its own right, but when this is also combined with the right campaign via Avaaz.org, Change.org, SumOfUs.Org, Amnesty International, Reporters without boarders, Liberty International, and a whole host of other organisations...

Then we can congregate social awareness, afford good and bad publicity, affect governments and corporations. we can generate big campaigns that builds up and lets loose consumer choice.

Pretty decent solution wouldn't you say!!!

Can it or will it fix everything - no. It will have differing degrees of success. This solution of sorts I speak of has made a real impact on a whole variety of issues. On some issues it helps to a degree or it heaps pressure on those that may at a latter date buckle. It is imperfect - I make that clear. But it IS something. So don't try to lecture me on solutions - this is something, especially when you yourself offer nothing!!!

Quote
Who is going
to ensure an "untouchable" in India gets "fair
play" when the country itself is hardly rushing
to reform centuries of such discrimination and
social demarcation.
Unquote

Not you! You are going to do absolutely nothing - bar complain about other people. You're going to complain put this at the door of others - me for starters. Irrespective of whether we are necessarily still on issue here or not.

Again - ridiculous to try and suggest that I am at fault, or not having a positive impact in some very small way - for not providing solutions to all the world problems in all there complexity.

What I would say is that consciousness raising enables. it leads to informed consumer choice and buying power, it also leads enables people to politically influence matters via the organisations I have detailed. The bottom line is this can have an impact on working conditions. It can have an impact upon minimum wages and investment in ethical goods and services. In engaging people politically in campaigns - via first raising consciousness, it can affect issues across the world. No guarantees of course and change will often come from within and take time - nobody has said any different. None of which lessens the importance of the what I have detailed.

Quote
working souls have a percentage of something
rather than 100% of nothing from those who, by
buying what they make, can supply income "from
without"
Unquote

Or they could burn or be crushed to death in a factory. Or they could barely survive on starvation wages, or they could face all manner of deprivation at the hands of multi-nationals.

Is that how you would rather have it M.C? I can tell you that is NOT how it is going to be, at least, many people are going to do what they can, with their buying power, their campaigning power. We're going to vote with our wallets, make ethical considerations, fight for human rights. And we ARE going to make a difference - we already have.

So forgive me if I take issue with you - from a factual point of view, from an economical point of view. Capitalism doesn't have to come with neoliberal right wing politics, or a we can't do anything attitude - people know that there is another way and are going to keep on pushing.

P.S

Try reading;

Pedagogy of the oppressed by Paulo Freire. Consciousness raising, as the core of an education system - that enables - you might come to understand a little. So powerful - it resulted in Freire being thrown out of Brazil by the military Junta in power as it empowered peasants, enabled critical thinking. To understand the book and Freire's teaching is to understand much of what I have been saying.

Comment is about Complicit (blog)

Original item by Chris Co

what a most delightful poem!thank you!x

Comment is about Girl in a Giraffe Onesey (blog)

Original item by jane wilcock

ditto the Wildes.x

Comment is about In there somewhere is goodbye (blog)

Of course, we are ALL consumers. But setting
the scenario and allocating "guilt" is one
thing. Supplying a solution in a complicated
world, another entirely.
Your aim seems to be primarily at conditions in
rag trade sweat shops - and I can think of a few countries that fit the bill - in which wages
paid to employees are very low indeed. How
to address those sorry situations is another
matter altogether in lands steeped in various
ways of life and varied cultures. Who is going
to ensure an "untouchable" in India gets "fair
play" when the country itself is hardly rushing
to reform centuries of such discrimination and
social demarcation. But it has to happen within. In the meantime, better that deprived
working souls have a percentage of something
rather than 100% of nothing from those who, by
buying what they make, can supply income "from
without" while history and change happens - as
it surely will.
"The most melancholy of human reflections, perhaps, is that, on the whole, it is a question
whether the benevolence of mankind does most
good or harm" - Walter Bagehot (1826-1877).

Comment is about Complicit (blog)

Original item by Chris Co

If you think this is simply condemning the consumer or people other than oneself, I think you've missed the point entirely M.C.

I am the consumer, You are the consumer...we all are.

Consumers have the power to inform themselves, consumers have the power to ensure they are not ignorant of what goes on in their name, consumers have the power to make informed decisions and take their buying power where they choose - to make ethical decisions. Consumers have the power of choice!

Instead of blaming others for what we demand, this is about taking responsibility.

If one statement speaks for where the issue and powers lies it is this -

I AM the consumer!

If you still don't like the ethos, or where this poem is coming from, that's fine, so long as we are clear about what is going on here

P.S

Ethical capitalism acknowledges, the market, it doesn't deny its existence, or try to paint a differing reality. It can make a real difference, in real terms, being both pragmatic and logistically sound - so it isn't pie in the sky idealism either.
It starts at the individual level and collects momentum.

Nowhere does it say in any sound economic theory, that part of a product or services appeal; that there cannot be an ethical dimension or desire that drives demand.

To leave no possible ambiguity here - I shall tell you what this is not. It is not, let's blame the consumer, where consumer is a cipher for everyone is at fault but me - let's blame the world. Neither is it decrying reality, in the hope the world will spin on its head and be something different. It is not anti-capitalist, rightly or wrongly. I hope that clears a few things up.

Comment is about Complicit (blog)

Original item by Chris Co

I like the title and also the picture of the wood shed

Comment is about A Shed for Wood: Daniel Thomas Moran, Salmon (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

I do not like women only or men only readings
it tend to be loop-sided and self regarding when
only one sex get to the mike

Comment is about Loose Muse goes west with new women-only open mic in Cornwall (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

One of the many idiosyncrasies of the English
language, which makes it one of the hardest
languages to master.
Perhaps it is easier to think of raising a
glass of (?) to(wards) something..as in a "toast"
"acknowledgement" or "salute" -
rather than "for" it.

Comment is about No, I Am Not! (blog)

Original item by Larisa Rzhepishevska

We're all driven by one need or another. The
consumer, wherever he or she may be, is by
virtue of purchasing, giving work to others.
Am I my brother's keeper? A question posed
aeons ago. Indirectly, the consumer feeds
another demand...that of the need to survive.
Is that cause for condemnation...or celebration?

Comment is about Complicit (blog)

Original item by Chris Co

Ah, the compatibility of free-will and the existence of an omnipotent divinity. Well put, beautifully constructed. Only a couple of jars for me line 7 'hid'... 'starry' wouldn't star suffice? Maybe a little self conscious of the syllable count on occasion. Apart from that a hugely enjoyable read.

Comment is about Fiesty old pro-choice Celia`s dream (blog)

Original item by Harry O`N eill

As ever thanks for your insightful comments Harry. I quite like the random rhymes, but i suppose it does make the poem a little less conventional.

Comment is about Harry O`N eill (poet profile)

Original item by Harry O`N eill

As ever thanks for your insightful comments Harry. I quite like the random rhymes, but i suppose it does make the poem a little less conventional.

Comment is about Valentine 2014 (number 25) (blog)

Original item by Neil Fawcett

Nice one Dave! And as Harry says, all those connections. Wow.

Comment is about Poignant poem about wartime disaster that claimed 61 lives in Lancashire (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

I wish I could make it tonight Chris - been too long eh? However, we're off to Bob's mum's for her birthday so cannae be there I'm afraid. Hope it's a good night - it looks like it's gonna be a top do!

Comment is about Complicit (blog)

Original item by Chris Co

Thx Laura, for reading and your thoughts/kind comments - most appreciated.

Hoping to make Wigan tomorrow, it would be nice to say hello and hear you read if you can make it.

My Best

Chris

Comment is about Complicit (blog)

Original item by Chris Co

Ha ha. Thanks Harry.

I'll see you there?

Comment is about Harry O`N eill (poet profile)

Original item by Harry O`N eill

we rate this poem as your best yet Frederick.xx

Comment is about In there somewhere is goodbye (blog)

What a touching set of connections Dave : to
be named for the lad, to write the poem, for it to be seen, and then brought to modern light in the book....a wonderful outcome. a very impressive memorial indeed.

Comment is about Poignant poem about wartime disaster that claimed 61 lives in Lancashire (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

A lovely and feeling poem in those first three lines Nick.

But after a fairly lengthy experience of life now...the very last person I`m prepared to have faith in is myself.

Believe me, we`re all quicksand.

Comment is about my 1st ever poem published as ode to Alanis in the pill issue 3 Alanis morrissette zine in late 96 (blog)

Original item by NICK ARMBRISTER

As someone also missing the cold, I find this unconventionally unusual

I like the `bereft` in stanza one.

Stanza one is striking, and its effect, with stanza two,
is first `softening` and then contrastively freezingly `stiff`. both of them ( With the `25` of the title) preparing for lastingness of the final `I still grow for you`

About the half rhyming I`m not sure (the over-hang of`maybe` and the (random?) catch-up of `march` and `starch` ?. I suppose it could be called `modern`...but?

That`s what I call love.

Comment is about Valentine 2014 (number 25) (blog)

Original item by Neil Fawcett

a poet should not be hampered by work done before
and not listen too hard what critics have to say

Comment is about The Visitations: Kathryn Simmonds, Seren (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

I´m sorry you have been in a situation like that. Thanks for your comment and take care!

Comment is about February Morning (blog)

Original item by Karin

Can't listen to that just yet Chris, but wanted to say I think this is a spot on poem. Great rhythm, and the mix of horrific reality with that blind greed is a tonic to my eyes. Informed choice - damned straight.

Cheers

Comment is about Complicit (blog)

Original item by Chris Co

Bohemian eh? Nice euphemism for drunken :D

Shame I'm gonna be missing this - looks like it's gonna be a beltin' night! Be great if anyone could record both Steve and Dave - two fab poets.

And - UKIP if you want to hahahaa :D

Comment is about Perversely political? Steve Mellor at Write Out Loud Wigan tonight (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

nick referred me to this, dave.

it's excellent stuff. deserves to be published defo.

well done

Comment is about The Freckleton Air Disaster (blog)

Original item by Dave Carr

powerful stuff Dave. I have a big interest in aviation archaeology, ww2, history and related things. ive written similar poems and visited crash sites including a B-24 over the moor from Dovestones, Greenfield. I never knew of the incident in your poem, ill research it. your poem brought it to my attention. thanx.

Comment is about The Freckleton Air Disaster (blog)

Original item by Dave Carr

Great words on such a sad event. I know these kinds of events well, having survived one or two.

x

Comment is about February Morning (blog)

Original item by Karin

Brilliant!

I have to say, that sometime in my past I courted tory views (although blindly), but what this tory government has done to the weakest part of our UK society is more than despicable, to be honest, I find it monstrous.

Good work blue!

Comment is about Here There Be Demons (blog)

Original item by Ian Whiteley

It must have been hushed up. I'd never heard of this till Dave's poem. I knew all about the Welsh mining disaster in a town I can't spell - it fills you with the same kind of horror and sadness - there's really nothing worse than the loss of young life - it's hard wired into us to protect them and it leaves you feeling so bad - though it feels like a bit of a platitude to say it.

Comment is about Poignant poem about wartime disaster that claimed 61 lives in Lancashire (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

LOL - no Wigan is the venue to go to if you're looking for solace amongst the tragedies of life - somewhere you can recover from it all and realise that life's definitely worth living!

I'm overjoyed to see two established WOL'ers and friends enjoying such success - and all on the same night - wouldn't be anywhere else on the 13th!

Comment is about Perversely political? Steve Mellor at Write Out Loud Wigan tonight (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

very nice rhyming

Comment is about Tales from the Dock (blog)

Original item by fitzroy herbert

I think your barber has a drink problem

Comment is about barber (blog)

Original item by Marnanel Thurman

Bardic warriors savage lines
mirror whispers thousand words
stifling atmosphere shouting people
please don't be late
for our secret strange
weird odd wad world
Stockport W O L collage sent.

Comment is about Options - February Collage poem (blog)

Original item by Stockport WoL

An intriguing typo!

Comment is about barber (blog)

Original item by Marnanel Thurman

sad story I remember reading about many years ago

Comment is about Poignant poem about wartime disaster that claimed 61 lives in Lancashire (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

It's getting biblical is this flooding.

Comment is about IFFY SMIFFY (blog)

Original item by M.C. Newberry

Let's hope I still have time to imrove my English.:-) Thank you so much, ny dear Solar Winds. :-)

Comment is about No, I Am Not! (blog)

Original item by Larisa Rzhepishevska

drink to that...not...drink for that.x

Comment is about No, I Am Not! (blog)

Original item by Larisa Rzhepishevska

Oh, my God! Everyone wants to drink TO THAT. :-)
Why not FOR THAT?

Comment is about No, I Am Not! (blog)

Original item by Larisa Rzhepishevska

You didn't answer my question: :-) TO or FOR?

Comment is about No, I Am Not! (blog)

Original item by Larisa Rzhepishevska

lets drink TO that Larisa-very good poem-thank you.x

Comment is about No, I Am Not! (blog)

Original item by Larisa Rzhepishevska

very nice lines David.x

Comment is about Stormshelter Playback (blog)

Original item by David Blake