well you've certainly surpissed yourself this time mr. coopey - another good 'un in your own inimitable style :-)
Ian
Comment is about Cottage Sleaze (blog)
Original item by John Coopey
Clutching at the straws as they fall out of the birds nest of sleep, combusting in the daylight just out of reach. So often this happens, nicely captured
Comment is about Fragment (blog)
Original item by Laura Taylor
I love your title Cynthia! I would amend it to read 'Good poetry can't exist without rhythm.....'
I see plenty of examples of poetry (some of it highly acclaimed) which I find totally un-poetic. For me to like a poem, there needs to be rhythm, which I often call flow. That flow can be found in non rhyming poetry but it's much harder to achieve and harder to explain.
Comment is about 'Poetry can't exist without rhythm. Don't be academically bullied into dropping rhymes' (article)
Original item by Greg Freeman
Like the look of The Mystery Kidnapper
One day in a graveyard,two evil twins appeared.
They popped up out of a grave.
Comment is about Creative Input Required (blog)
Original item by Stockport WoL
I'll bet a new pound to an old penny that the
media were assuming that modern sensibilities
would equate "sluts" with "tarts" or "whores".
Enough said!
Harry - thanks for the comments and the observation on the stanza in question.
Comment is about FADING BLOOM (blog)
Original item by M.C. Newberry
Looking at your initials and your style, I'm reminded of another excellent blogger who used to appear on this site. Whoever, this is an excellent poem. Apologies that I can't find anything to fault!
Comment is about Rebecca's (blog)
What a great piece, thanks Cynthia! I love this part, it is sooo true:
"If any single word, or phrase, stumbles out awkwardly, then change those words. They are not right for that part of the poem, and your mouth knows it. Trust the lips, the teeth and the tip of the tongue!"
Fantastic, should be made a sticky on the site this!
Comment is about 'Poetry can't exist without rhythm. Don't be academically bullied into dropping rhymes' (article)
Original item by Greg Freeman
Excellent piece.
The juxtaposition of accent needing to be consistent and consonants must be included seems to me at odds. Perhaps, as you have said elsewhere the key is their deliberacy of inclusion and omission.
As for consistency of accent... well again it is about purpose, accuracy and control.
Mine is far from consistent but it does have plenty of purpose.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHE4-psmwL0
Comment is about 'Poetry can't exist without rhythm. Don't be academically bullied into dropping rhymes' (article)
Original item by Greg Freeman
Apologies to Gemma and whoever turned out last night. Apparently I was down as guest poet. I've sacked my tour manager and bought a new diary. Actually I thought it was next week. Unforgiveable. I'm sure you had a good time anyway.
Dave Morgan
Review is about Write Out Loud - Middleton on 25 Aug 2013 (event)
Congratulations to the Poetry Book Society for organising this commendable tour, and to the Arts Council for backing it. Sounds like it was a very good night at Oldham.
Comment is about Grand performances as TS Eliot tour drops in at Oldham library (article)
Original item by Greg Freeman
That's rather a hefty entry fee...
I do find a lot of these comps iffy. If the only prize is getting yourself published then I'm guessing the entry fees are funding this.
Would the 36 lines have something to do with page length for the printer - why should the poems be limited?
Comment is about Chance to have collection published in Geoff Stevens memorial competition (article)
Original item by Greg Freeman
I'm guessing that the winners will be invited to provide additional poems to form a full collection, Freda, once they are selected.
Comment is about Chance to have collection published in Geoff Stevens memorial competition (article)
Original item by Greg Freeman
I do find competitions puzzling.
This one asks for 10 poems of not more than 36 lines. Then it says '5. The two winners will receive 25 copies of their collection which will comprise 56 perfect bound pages'.
Does this mean the ten poems totaling max: 360 lines will be spread over at least 50 pages, (given a few end-papers)? That is an average of 7.2 lines to a page. Five pages for each poem.
Am I reading this wrongly?
Comment is about Chance to have collection published in Geoff Stevens memorial competition (article)
Original item by Greg Freeman
It isn't apparent at the moment that the poem shortlisted for the Forward prize was plagiarised, Freda, and indeed CJ Allen maintains it wasn't. The allegations relate to other poems. But those accusations and plagiarisms have cast a shadow, and I am sure the organisers are relieved that CJ Allen has done the decent thing, at least as far as the Forward shortlist is concerned. I also find it somewhat interesting that the judges thought so highly of it, when it had only been placed third in the Troubadour contest. As one of the other judges, Sheenagh Pugh, has pointed out, it wasn't on everyone's shortlist.
Comment is about Poet accused of plagiarism pulls out of Forward shortlist (article)
Original item by Greg Freeman
Jeanette Winterson, chairman of the 2013 Forward Prizes judging panel, says: “We thought the poem had depth, wit, truth and elegance. Maybe CJ Allen is a shyster, maybe not.. Our job wasn’t to pass judgment on people or process, but to find good poems.”
This is a bit of a cop out to my mind. It is not difficult to do a search on phrases of a poem and discover if it has been published online by someone else. In the previous discussion of plagiarism some people found a lot of examples by doing a search. Harder I admit if the poem has only been paper-published by someone else but I think it would not be difficult for any competition manager to do a search at least of a shortlisted group of poems.
I don't think it is the responsibility of the judges, but they should expect it to be looked into.
Comment is about Poet accused of plagiarism pulls out of Forward shortlist (article)
Original item by Greg Freeman
Hello Jane , Hope you are well.
Thanks for your comment
my original poem for that is nice and was written by the sea on holiday
but the version on here was written in a city
my poems on here are jumbled examples of what i do
i always have trouble with swearing in poems in this case i swear out of desperation i think
Thanks for your message and i take your thoughts on board ! thanks
Comment is about jane wilcock (poet profile)
Original item by jane wilcock
Lads,
If `slut` means means doing the housework - un-beautified from last nights dance - as nearly all women still do (besides being a nice little outside earner) then I`m all for it...Call me a chauvinistic pig.
I`m all for it!
For pete`s sake boys, how do you think we`reall able to exist!
(so long as she doesn`t make too much noise as I`m watchin` this derby)
By the way M.C. that third stanza`s a metrical little corker!
Comment is about FADING BLOOM (blog)
Original item by M.C. Newberry
Brill. (I fell over a chair in a pile of chairs at a gallery once and was rebuked for it. Difficult to know where it should go back I said). One persons luggage is another persons trash!
Comment is about Liverpool Tate (blog)
Original item by Tommy Carroll
a room of contrasts, I really found this thought provoking, great observational poetry.
Comment is about It's different (blog)
Original item by Dave Bradley
Well, having read ahead today I think you have maybe spouted a number of theological poems of doferent types. Perhaps in these old words is a story? Personally I like sitting on old church pews and wondering who else has sat there and why.
Comment is about Hugging Candles (blog)
Original item by John Coopey
Well said, a Unitarian maybe. The theological vs scientific dogma bores me: one resons and explains, the other is experiential but they also semm at times to overhang and blend at will.
Comment is about Religious Dogma (blog)
Thanks for contributing to the discussion and liking my poem Chris. I am glad that we are in agreement that this piece of work is reprehensible.
My poem was directed more at intellectuals within the art world - those who purchased this work and displayed it in their gallery. But if I'm to be honest, it's also for people who could watch this video without feeling the same rage and anguish that I feel.
I take your point that just because people don't say anything, doesn't mean they don't agree. I HAVE reacted to what I saw in quite an extreme way - possibly more extreme than most people would have. When you really feel something deep inside, sometimes it's hard to understand how others can't. I think I'm passionate by nature and hardwired to act in this way. I guess we are all different and that's what makes for an interesting world :)
I hear what you are saying about censorship but do not agree.I don't see the art world as being on a par with the film industry. I can't imagine that banning a video from a publicly funded art gallery would create a stampede of people wanting to see it in a privately funded gallery. Nor would the artist benefit financially from any voyeuristic curiosity via people on the internet.I take your point that agreeing on a set of principles might be trickier. I would be looking for a very simple formula. Just that no live person or creature should be hurt or exploited in the creation of a piece of art. I think that publicly funded institutions should be accountable to the public in some way - and that there should be channels we can go through when they cross the line. If we allow galleries to fund this kind of art, where will it end?
Thanks again for reading.
Isobel
Comment is about Turning Over Tables (blog)
Original item by Isobel
A point very well made. Hilarious.
Comment is about Liverpool Tate (blog)
Original item by Tommy Carroll
Poignant stuff. Lovely read, but sad.
Starfish
Comment is about Poem For A Friend (blog)
Original item by Steve Higgins
I'll have some of that
Comment is about Roll up for Wirral Ode Show poetry contest (article)
Original item by Greg Freeman
Bloom behaved unlike the politicians we have
become used to - but I wonder how a certain
John Prescott (or George Brown of old) might
have reacted?
The BBC ran a ticker-tape news item on a continuous thread along the bottom of its News
24 screen accusing Bloom of describing women as
sluts. This misleading generalisation was the subject of my dissatisfaction with the type
of misleading reporting we get - less so,
the childish stuff about the cover of the UKIP brochure. Bloom should have merely smiled
and remarked how good the pictures were!
As for "sluts", he was speaking in the context of the conversation IN the room he occupied when
badinage/banter was understandable, albeit not
usually heard from a "politician". Slut, of
course, is defined as an untidy or slovenly
woman. He could have used the term "slattern"
and had the reporters scratching their heads!
All parties attract "fruitcakes". That's par
for the society we have created for ourselves
today, when we are so quick to take a position - and take offence...yet are so concerned about
giving offence we let kids and old folk die in vile circumstances because we don't want to challenge others for fear of being labelled this or that type of person. Baaaa!
Comment is about FADING BLOOM (blog)
Original item by M.C. Newberry
Come along this Thursday if you can make it, the quality of the poetry seems to keep improving and the group Little Machine always entertain.
Review is about Rhythm & Muse on 26 Sep 2013 (event)
Concerned, humane, looking outwards. I like the terse title, too. Well done, Dave.
Comment is about It's different (blog)
Original item by Dave Bradley
Quote
forgive
the unforgivable
excuse
the inexcusable
justify
the unjustifiable
Unquote
Do they though? Sorry Isobel, but I think this was part of the problem. In so much as - in getting very upset about the artist and their art, you attached opinions and connotations to quite a few people (that they themselves did not display/have) who didn't agree with your position wholesale.
Many people, of whom I was one dislike the art and the artist but did not think that attempts to ban would be a good idea. I thought a) it would not be possible to have the work banned and such attempts would be futile, b) that banning such art, does nothing more than promote it. Take every horror movie or cpu game that was ever banned, compare that to comparable products that were not banned. Far more of the former gained a certain fame and notoriety. Movies like chainsaw massacre, we know of them precisely because they were banned. Yes I know that the subject matter differs, however what does not differ is the nature of banning and human behaviour and it is here that the comparison stands-up. In the age of the internet, banning equals even greater promotion. c) Another problem with banning in this instance, is who would write the guidelines, to whose standard of ethics would the world conform? Ethics change over time and differ culture to culture. How would you ever get a world-wide agreement on such ethics? I don't believe this would be feasible. Not only that, d) we would also be introducing censorship and the many problems inherent with codifying art along such lines.
So - YES the art and artist are reprehensible and YES some choose to vote with their feet and have a differing way of dealing with such things, but that makes their position no less decent or reasonable.
But your poem here - you say we forgive, excuse and justify. Sorry but that is very wrong. It's absolutely NOT what many people were doing. Rather a few people felt the situation was more complex, nuanced and less strightforward. And also a few of us did not believe that going ballistic with expletives was helpful or conducive in terms of dealing with the situation at hand.
Sorry, but I had to raise this given the specific nature of the language here. It would have been shying away from the truth not to.
On the positive side, I do actually like the poem. I like the fact that you highlight your own feelings and opinion subjectively. It works very well and comes across as a strong protest. Remember I, like some of the people you were arguing with, if not all the people you were arguing with - agreed in essence when it came to this art work and its value, or rather the lack thereof.
Ooze is very good as is maladjusted, the latter in fact is particularly good considering the nature of what the artist claims to be art. One could say that it is the artist and art that is maladjusted, or that the world we have come to live in, that calls this art is maladjusted. The eyes, our senses, a cognitive dissonance in humanity causing us to struggle with what are normal feelings of outrage.
I like the poem overall and I do like the passion. But I can't agree with your summation of others - me included.
The biblical reference to turning over tables of course relates to Jesus and his own direct action in dealing with impropriety. Poetically/artistically this sits well given modern direct action ala Mark Bridger - having a double connotation.
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/it-was-5-years-ago-today-when-damien-hirst-put-a-sheep-in-his--tank-1089375.html
P.S
Turning Sierra over via black paint would be easier to pull off, more pleasing aesthetically and ethically and less problematic than censorship.
Best of
Chris
Comment is about Turning Over Tables (blog)
Original item by Isobel
Great observational poetry Dave. So many people wouldn't have seen what you saw - or felt it.
Sometimes the effort to describe something terrible is just too great - and to what point? People still wouldn't be able to comprehend, even if you found the words.
You communicate all that feeling so well.
Comment is about It's different (blog)
Original item by Dave Bradley
The repetition of 'safety' is apt as is the observation that led to the poem.
Where has he traveled to in the last few seconds?
Coming back to;
'somewhere different' and its onion layer refrain 'somewhere very different' - that is where the poetry is for me. Very real and doing what poetry should, it was one of the poems that really resonated at The Spoke.
In terms of crit...
I would tend lose the capitalisation with new lines following a comma. It's nothing more than a stylistic preference, but such capitalisation is rarely seen these days (more associated with poetry from a bygone era).
Best of
Chris
Comment is about It's different (blog)
Original item by Dave Bradley
It wasn't the media that sacked Bloom but the Ukip hierarchy, MC. I actually agree with you that the 'sluts' remark was taken a tad out of context. But he was on borrowed time after his 'bong-bongo land' remark, I would imagine, from a party leadership trying to appear more mainstream, and not crammed full of fruitcakes, even though, of course, they still are. Anyway, I hope you don't include the hard-working operatives at Write Out Loud in your poetic assault on the media. I note that Bloom was unable to bottle it up any longer and laid into one reporter with a copy of the Ukip brochure. Your kind of guy?
Comment is about FADING BLOOM (blog)
Original item by M.C. Newberry
very powerful piece Dave - there is a real resonance in what is not being said as much as what is there - it gives the reader space to wonder....the repetition of the word 'safety' early on lulls you into a false sense of security - and whilst the pay off isn't gory it is still quietly horrific - I think this one would work really well when read live - good stuff mate
Ian
Comment is about It's different (blog)
Original item by Dave Bradley
Philipos
Fri 20th Sep 2013 19:17
Re; 'Pebble on Bournemouth Beach',thank you very much Cynthia - always good to have an expert opinion & an encouraging one at that. x
Comment is about Cynthia Buell Thomas (poet profile)
Original item by Cynthia Buell Thomas
Philipos
Fri 20th Sep 2013 19:13
Agree with Cynthia - powerful. 'Somewhere very different says it all'. Cheers. P.
Comment is about It's different (blog)
Original item by Dave Bradley
<Deleted User> (11459)
Fri 20th Sep 2013 18:21
what is outside-
can be left aside:
as we have it all
actually inside
Comment is about Inside Us (blog)
Original item by Nigel Astell
<Deleted User> (11459)
Fri 20th Sep 2013 18:14
<Deleted User> (11459)
Fri 20th Sep 2013 18:13
world of colors
inspiring lovers
to love it
Comment is about Clues of Curiosity (blog)
Original item by Nigel Astell
I still think your poem is terrific, and I'm glad you've put it up again for new WOLers.
I think that a flexible mind can be very adaptive, and open to suggestion. IMO, all art is just that - a peep hole to see into the artist's mind, the connection depending entirely upon the viewer's own experience. How can you relate to what you've never known?
Comment is about Liverpool Tate (blog)
Original item by Tommy Carroll
Excellent, just plain - excellent.
Comment is about It's different (blog)
Original item by Dave Bradley
<Deleted User> (11459)
Fri 20th Sep 2013 17:26
For me, as a new-comer,
so cool to have a first-comer,
having noticed my existence,
writing comments with persistence!
I'm so grateful, happy, glad!
you are driving this girl mad!
Thank you Nigel, you are great!
Write me more, my poet-mate!
Comment is about Nigel Astell (poet profile)
Original item by Nigel Astell
Dave, I have never seen the Leonard Cohen poem before. Thank you for sharing it with me. The ideas do seem to conjoin, and then fly apart. The similarity of vocabulary is a bit shocking. But it's bound to be a fairly common metaphor among people who think about things along certain lines of interest. It gave me a bit of a shiver.
Comment is about Dave Bradley (poet profile)
Original item by Dave Bradley
Dave, I have never seen this poem before. Thank you for sharing it with me. The ideas do seem to conjoin, and then fly apart. The similarity of vocabulary is a bit shocking. But it's bound to be a fairly common metaphor among people who think about things along certain lines of interest.
Comment is about Metaphor (blog)
Original item by Cynthia Buell Thomas
I could; but you don't have to match it word for word. My Afghan Anthem is about half the length of Anthem For Doomed Youth. Remember, it's meant to be a starting point.
I think Nigel's is a perfect response. I'm rather envious!
Comment is about Stockport WOL Prompt 9/9/13 (blog)
Original item by Stockport WoL
It is a rather long poem, Linda. Can't you find a shorter one?
Comment is about Stockport WOL Prompt 9/9/13 (blog)
Original item by Stockport WoL
Thanks Guys. That's down to Andy who came up with great answers to my questions.
Comment is about Smokestack champions the radical and unfashionable (article)
Original item by Greg Freeman
Ooo a very atmospheric and evocative piece this...that line about the red nails is immensely pleasing to the eye/ear.
Comment is about Pub Singer (blog)
Original item by Neil Fawcett
Dave Bradley
Mon 23rd Sep 2013 23:40
Only just found this and loved it. They do often settle where they go to uni - handy if it's London!
Comment is about Independence Day (blog)
Original item by jane wilcock