It is impossible to make a clear judgement on Paul's sexuality either way but his misogyny coupled with his homophobia does lend itself to a homosexual interpretation.
Another explanation of the debilitating thorn in his flesh might be that he was referring to some undiagnosed health condition, possibly epilepsy.
Comment is about A History of Gay Poetry, 1: A Bare Canvas (article)
Original item by Mike Took
John,
Thank you for this comment and the article you use, which is indeed also speculative, as we shall never know the real Paul. It is a fact that he was a Roman Citizen and a Pharisee, a man who struggled with his faith and personal issues of unworthiness, as do we all. The thorn in his flesh could well refer to his innate sinful nature which he felt stood in the way of his relationship with Christ. There is no clear reference to the subject of sexuality. Paul was bound by Jewish teaching and a theologian of immense understanding as can be seen from his letters. Had he been a gay man then he would never have openly declared his sexuality as his standing in society not only with the Jews but also the early Church would have rendered him a heretic and not worthy of being an apostle. Paul was a man of sinful nature and saw the conquest of sin as a means of overcoming anything which prevented union with Christ.
Paul, as with many members the Institution of the Church, may have been gay but the subject was always condemned as contrary to the laws of God and therefore avoided or simply condemned outright. A greater and more important question is the mind of Christ on the subject of which we know so little.
Thank you again for your comment and interest.
Keith
Comment is about A History of Gay Poetry, 1: A Bare Canvas (article)
Original item by Mike Took
elPintor
Fri 23rd Nov 2018 01:13
"..seeing a splintering of a thousand potential futures
they all exist because none of them exist..."
I read this when you first posted and had to come back for these lines. It's like some interweaving of Schroedinger's cat and ideas of order/disorder--and the fact that you intermix such complexity within a "love" poem makes it all the more attractive.
Rachel
Comment is about the first is [not] (blog)
Original item by ha'azinu
*St. Paul has a dig about homosexuals in a brief passage, often erroneously quoted but considering he was a Roman Citizen, a hetrosexual and a Pharisee one cannot expect otherwise.*
There is no clear evidence that Paul was heterosexual; in fact, he seemed to hate women. Some say that the famous 'thorn' in his flesh that he struggled with might be a homosexual allusion.
https://www.beliefnet.com/faiths/christianity/2004/04/was-the-apostle-paul-gay.aspx
Comment is about A History of Gay Poetry, 1: A Bare Canvas (article)
Original item by Mike Took
Thank you for the positive comment, Big Sal
Comment is about an exploration (blog)
Original item by walkingman
Marc Bolan - he died the same month.
Comment is about The Day Elvis Died I Cried (blog)
Original item by Cynthia Buell Thomas
I felt the sensation of treading water, panic and the inability to progress whilst reading your poem. So well thought out, I was completely immersed. Excellent...
Comment is about The Distant Sofa (blog)
Original item by Robert C Gaulke
Beautifully uplifting poem...excellent..?
Comment is about Things I Am Thankful For (blog)
Original item by d.knape
This poem touched me deeply Keith..thank you..❤
Comment is about A Covered Mood (blog)
Original item by keith jeffries
<Deleted User> (18980)
Thu 22nd Nov 2018 17:47
Ditto John Lennon.
Comment is about The Day Elvis Died I Cried (blog)
Original item by Cynthia Buell Thomas
thanks stu,
this is actually one in a series of many letters to many people and I feel kind of guilty for having dominated this conversation so heavily
I think I'd have the voice for it if I took up smoking, but whiskey will have to do for now.
Comment is about sean penn (11/19/2017) (blog)
Original item by Zach Dafoe
Eve,
thank you this poem as wisteria is one of my all time favourite blooms. Roll on spring when we can see it again.
Keith
Comment is about Winter Wisteria (blog)
Original item by eve nortley
Big Sal
Thu 22nd Nov 2018 16:07
A crossroads of a choice spoken poetically.?
Comment is about an exploration (blog)
Original item by walkingman
It's strange when someone you've known for years but never met can have such an effect. I had a similar experience when David Bowie died.
Comment is about The Day Elvis Died I Cried (blog)
Original item by Cynthia Buell Thomas
Thu 22nd Nov 2018 14:29
Pause, reflect, give thanks.
Comment is about Things I Am Thankful For (blog)
Original item by d.knape
Big Sal
Thu 22nd Nov 2018 12:38
Hi Tommy; I just meant loyalty to a political party. Regards Ray
Comment is about Austerity (blog)
Original item by Tommy Carroll
<Deleted User> (18980)
Thu 22nd Nov 2018 10:25
Well Don,
Obviously not a church mouse.
Keith
Comment is about ATM Give No Rupee (blog)
Original item by Don Matthews
Down Under we write simple
Pretention? we know not
Our writing is not bullshit
Good God this poem's shot ?
Comment is about POLICY (blog)
Original item by M.C. Newberry
Thu 22nd Nov 2018 02:39
sorry, did not mean to offend.
maybe my humor was misplaced or misunderstood.
that's all it was, Humor.
Comment is about ray pool (poet profile)
Original item by ray pool
elPintor
Thu 22nd Nov 2018 01:04
the color comes to life from the first line, and the complement you provide is almost terrible in its striking contrast and vividness.
Forgive me, but it reminds me of a story I've recently heard of a waiting for a pure red heifer--I puzzle at this part of humanity that is drawn in by such esoteric conclusions, yet find it quite beautiful, even in my hope that it remain benign.
Rachel
Comment is about shedding velvet in monochrome/a field in england (blog)
Original item by Stuart Buck
elPintor
Thu 22nd Nov 2018 00:37
Hey, man, I love the Dolls. The theatrics are so gorgeous and over-the-top and, besides, Amanda Palmer reminds me of my niece and so, I listen and watch every so often when I'm feeling nostalgic for family and the simplicity of deep, often unspoken, true love. Thanks for the link.
Lovely to have you peek in, Stu.
Rachel x
PS
As teenagers, my younger brother and I once shot an instant photo of her (my niece) at three years--a cute little towhead dressed in a shredded Metallica tee, and a cig hanging from her pouty lip--she had the act down from the beginning...
Alas, that picture didn't survive my mother's scrutiny--at least I have the memory.
Comment is about sexism (blog)
Original item by nunya
'Austerity':
'Loyalty' Ray? I'm not getting your point here.
Tommy
Comment is about ray pool (poet profile)
Original item by ray pool
'Loyalty' Ray? I'm not getting your point here.
Tommy
Comment is about Austerity (blog)
Original item by Tommy Carroll
Thanks for your reading of this Stu it is much appreciated. Cheers
Comment is about Ravaged (blog)
Original item by Martin Elder
I agree with David in that I love the word frottage, it has so many marvellous possibilities. Once again your word play is superb always making me work at reading and savouring every last morsel.
Good to see you back Stu
Nice one my friend
Comment is about shedding velvet in monochrome/a field in england (blog)
Original item by Stuart Buck
Works of pretension??? On this site, MC???? Surely not???
Comment is about POLICY (blog)
Original item by M.C. Newberry
Great poem Louis! Taken from the point of view of someone doesn't appreciate or approve of a poet's creativity and looks down their nose at that poet and the subject.
Comment is about I am better than him (blog)
Original item by Louis Audet
Kate, I just found your comment, sorry . Pleased you like it!
Ray
Comment is about STANNAH STAIRLIFT (blog)
Original item by ray pool
Jon Anya and Kate very welcome likes, thanks!
Big Sal, The smell of the fields was pervasive. Over here we get lavender in pots and whack 'em in where they can thrive, but seeds sound interesting! Enjoy what you have.
Martin, Maybe a recording can help to convey a slant on a poem; I don't have a plan, though I think this had a tinge of Richard Burton, dare I say it. Only half cocked though. The Cotswolds this year brought a swathe of our oriental friends. I hope they were allowed in to York Minster.
Great to hear from you Stu. I'm glad you're watching and listening too!
A lovely picture you paint David, almost a poem in itself. We tend to keep the heads and make pot pouri which you stick your nose right in. Thanks too for your encouragement, one I take seriously.
Thanks for the warm comment Darren, appreciated.
Greetings all. Ray
Comment is about LAVENDER FIELDS FOREVER (blog)
Original item by ray pool
Keith and Megan, thanks for liking this!
Hannah, Beno, John Anya and Martin, glad you enjoyed the poem, thanks for commenting.
Thanks for the ideas David. That place was the closest I've ever got to a place of peace. Bloody freezing, though low humidity. I had days off on that tour and that was one. The last line was the icing on the cake.
Ray.
Comment is about IN NORWAY 1976 (blog)
Original item by ray pool
Thank you for your comments on The Dance Ray..?
Comment is about ray pool (poet profile)
Original item by ray pool
Thank you for your comments on The Dance John, it is wonderful to read the perspectives seen in our work, from another's view. Taylor
Comment is about John E Marks (poet profile)
Original item by John E Marks
I guess you could equally have a plague of Grockles....?
Comment is about Grackles (blog)
Original item by d.knape
IMO, a really fine work, short and strong, savagely simple and full of so much 'scope' in so few lines. The 'chorus' is gut-wrenching.
WOW!
Comment is about Congo Childhood (blog)
Original item by eve nortley
Great little limerick.
I have a really hard time recognising 'pretension'. What if the poem simply isn't within my personal taste, or beyond my scope to understand? Now, I really don't like 'dumping' which may be the same idea - those writers who seem to think they are so brilliant that their writing requires no 'work'. Basically irritating. But, then, you get the odd writer who really IS so brilliant his/her writing requires no 'work'. Aw --- heck! I'm probably just plain jealous.
Comment is about POLICY (blog)
Original item by M.C. Newberry
Thank you, Sal! I appreciate you reading it!
Comment is about the first is [not] (blog)
Original item by ha'azinu
Hi Kate
Didn't occur to me when writing that it had universal application but that's good news. Thanks for liking.
Comment is about BOXES (blog)
Original item by john short
Some of your list of questions after my comment I have already covered on 6 August so that should suffice. Insults tend to go stale quite quickly unless they are very skilled. It is not obligatory to comment on poems but where an inspiration comes in I feel it is justified, which I did in your case. Perhaps you might feel the urge yourself someday. Other than that I am flummoxed - either I am not getting your humour or aliens have landed. (That's my humour).
Ray
Comment is about d.knape (poet profile)
Original item by d.knape
<Deleted User> (18980)
Wed 21st Nov 2018 17:08
Big Sal
Wed 21st Nov 2018 16:51
keith jeffries
Fri 23rd Nov 2018 10:24
John,
Thank you, as you raise other issues relevant to Paul´s inner condition. Misogyny would be today´s interpretation of some men´s attidtude towards women but 2000 years ago women were held in low esteem socially. Was Paul´s homophobia simply his way of climbing on the bandwagon of Judaism and a cover for his hidden emotions? We shall never know. His epiliepsy could well be his thorn as illness then was often regarded as being the manifestation of some sin or sinful condition.
Thanks again
Keith
Comment is about A History of Gay Poetry, 1: A Bare Canvas (article)
Original item by Mike Took