A point very well made. Hilarious.

Comment is about Liverpool Tate (blog)

Original item by Tommy Carroll

Poignant stuff. Lovely read, but sad.
Starfish

Comment is about Poem For A Friend (blog)

Original item by Steve Higgins

I'll have some of that

Comment is about Roll up for Wirral Ode Show poetry contest (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

Bloom behaved unlike the politicians we have
become used to - but I wonder how a certain
John Prescott (or George Brown of old) might
have reacted?
The BBC ran a ticker-tape news item on a continuous thread along the bottom of its News
24 screen accusing Bloom of describing women as
sluts. This misleading generalisation was the subject of my dissatisfaction with the type
of misleading reporting we get - less so,
the childish stuff about the cover of the UKIP brochure. Bloom should have merely smiled
and remarked how good the pictures were!
As for "sluts", he was speaking in the context of the conversation IN the room he occupied when
badinage/banter was understandable, albeit not
usually heard from a "politician". Slut, of
course, is defined as an untidy or slovenly
woman. He could have used the term "slattern"
and had the reporters scratching their heads!
All parties attract "fruitcakes". That's par
for the society we have created for ourselves
today, when we are so quick to take a position - and take offence...yet are so concerned about
giving offence we let kids and old folk die in vile circumstances because we don't want to challenge others for fear of being labelled this or that type of person. Baaaa!

Comment is about FADING BLOOM (blog)

Original item by M.C. Newberry

Come along this Thursday if you can make it, the quality of the poetry seems to keep improving and the group Little Machine always entertain.

Review is about Rhythm & Muse on 26 Sep 2013 (event)

Concerned, humane, looking outwards. I like the terse title, too. Well done, Dave.

Comment is about It's different (blog)

Original item by Dave Bradley

Quote

forgive

the unforgivable

excuse

the inexcusable

justify

the unjustifiable

Unquote

Do they though? Sorry Isobel, but I think this was part of the problem. In so much as - in getting very upset about the artist and their art, you attached opinions and connotations to quite a few people (that they themselves did not display/have) who didn't agree with your position wholesale.

Many people, of whom I was one dislike the art and the artist but did not think that attempts to ban would be a good idea. I thought a) it would not be possible to have the work banned and such attempts would be futile, b) that banning such art, does nothing more than promote it. Take every horror movie or cpu game that was ever banned, compare that to comparable products that were not banned. Far more of the former gained a certain fame and notoriety. Movies like chainsaw massacre, we know of them precisely because they were banned. Yes I know that the subject matter differs, however what does not differ is the nature of banning and human behaviour and it is here that the comparison stands-up. In the age of the internet, banning equals even greater promotion. c) Another problem with banning in this instance, is who would write the guidelines, to whose standard of ethics would the world conform? Ethics change over time and differ culture to culture. How would you ever get a world-wide agreement on such ethics? I don't believe this would be feasible. Not only that, d) we would also be introducing censorship and the many problems inherent with codifying art along such lines.

So - YES the art and artist are reprehensible and YES some choose to vote with their feet and have a differing way of dealing with such things, but that makes their position no less decent or reasonable.

But your poem here - you say we forgive, excuse and justify. Sorry but that is very wrong. It's absolutely NOT what many people were doing. Rather a few people felt the situation was more complex, nuanced and less strightforward. And also a few of us did not believe that going ballistic with expletives was helpful or conducive in terms of dealing with the situation at hand.

Sorry, but I had to raise this given the specific nature of the language here. It would have been shying away from the truth not to.

On the positive side, I do actually like the poem. I like the fact that you highlight your own feelings and opinion subjectively. It works very well and comes across as a strong protest. Remember I, like some of the people you were arguing with, if not all the people you were arguing with - agreed in essence when it came to this art work and its value, or rather the lack thereof.

Ooze is very good as is maladjusted, the latter in fact is particularly good considering the nature of what the artist claims to be art. One could say that it is the artist and art that is maladjusted, or that the world we have come to live in, that calls this art is maladjusted. The eyes, our senses, a cognitive dissonance in humanity causing us to struggle with what are normal feelings of outrage.

I like the poem overall and I do like the passion. But I can't agree with your summation of others - me included.

The biblical reference to turning over tables of course relates to Jesus and his own direct action in dealing with impropriety. Poetically/artistically this sits well given modern direct action ala Mark Bridger - having a double connotation.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/it-was-5-years-ago-today-when-damien-hirst-put-a-sheep-in-his--tank-1089375.html

P.S

Turning Sierra over via black paint would be easier to pull off, more pleasing aesthetically and ethically and less problematic than censorship.


Best of

Chris

Comment is about Turning Over Tables (blog)

Original item by Isobel

Great observational poetry Dave. So many people wouldn't have seen what you saw - or felt it.

Sometimes the effort to describe something terrible is just too great - and to what point? People still wouldn't be able to comprehend, even if you found the words.

You communicate all that feeling so well.

Comment is about It's different (blog)

Original item by Dave Bradley

The repetition of 'safety' is apt as is the observation that led to the poem.

Where has he traveled to in the last few seconds?

Coming back to;

'somewhere different' and its onion layer refrain 'somewhere very different' - that is where the poetry is for me. Very real and doing what poetry should, it was one of the poems that really resonated at The Spoke.

In terms of crit...

I would tend lose the capitalisation with new lines following a comma. It's nothing more than a stylistic preference, but such capitalisation is rarely seen these days (more associated with poetry from a bygone era).

Best of

Chris

Comment is about It's different (blog)

Original item by Dave Bradley

It wasn't the media that sacked Bloom but the Ukip hierarchy, MC. I actually agree with you that the 'sluts' remark was taken a tad out of context. But he was on borrowed time after his 'bong-bongo land' remark, I would imagine, from a party leadership trying to appear more mainstream, and not crammed full of fruitcakes, even though, of course, they still are. Anyway, I hope you don't include the hard-working operatives at Write Out Loud in your poetic assault on the media. I note that Bloom was unable to bottle it up any longer and laid into one reporter with a copy of the Ukip brochure. Your kind of guy?

Comment is about FADING BLOOM (blog)

Original item by M.C. Newberry

very powerful piece Dave - there is a real resonance in what is not being said as much as what is there - it gives the reader space to wonder....the repetition of the word 'safety' early on lulls you into a false sense of security - and whilst the pay off isn't gory it is still quietly horrific - I think this one would work really well when read live - good stuff mate
Ian

Comment is about It's different (blog)

Original item by Dave Bradley

Re; 'Pebble on Bournemouth Beach',thank you very much Cynthia - always good to have an expert opinion & an encouraging one at that. x

Comment is about Cynthia Buell Thomas (poet profile)

Original item by Cynthia Buell Thomas

Agree with Cynthia - powerful. 'Somewhere very different says it all'. Cheers. P.

Comment is about It's different (blog)

Original item by Dave Bradley

what is outside-
can be left aside:
as we have it all
actually inside

Comment is about Inside Us (blog)

Original item by Nigel Astell

:)

Comment is about Clues of Curiosity (blog)

Original item by Nigel Astell

world of colors
inspiring lovers
to love it

Comment is about Clues of Curiosity (blog)

Original item by Nigel Astell

I still think your poem is terrific, and I'm glad you've put it up again for new WOLers.

I think that a flexible mind can be very adaptive, and open to suggestion. IMO, all art is just that - a peep hole to see into the artist's mind, the connection depending entirely upon the viewer's own experience. How can you relate to what you've never known?

Comment is about Liverpool Tate (blog)

Original item by Tommy Carroll

Excellent, just plain - excellent.

Comment is about It's different (blog)

Original item by Dave Bradley

For me, as a new-comer,
so cool to have a first-comer,
having noticed my existence,
writing comments with persistence!
I'm so grateful, happy, glad!
you are driving this girl mad!
Thank you Nigel, you are great!
Write me more, my poet-mate!

Comment is about Nigel Astell (poet profile)

Original item by Nigel Astell

Dave, I have never seen the Leonard Cohen poem before. Thank you for sharing it with me. The ideas do seem to conjoin, and then fly apart. The similarity of vocabulary is a bit shocking. But it's bound to be a fairly common metaphor among people who think about things along certain lines of interest. It gave me a bit of a shiver.

Comment is about Dave Bradley (poet profile)

Original item by Dave Bradley

Dave, I have never seen this poem before. Thank you for sharing it with me. The ideas do seem to conjoin, and then fly apart. The similarity of vocabulary is a bit shocking. But it's bound to be a fairly common metaphor among people who think about things along certain lines of interest.

Comment is about Metaphor (blog)

Original item by Cynthia Buell Thomas

I could; but you don't have to match it word for word. My Afghan Anthem is about half the length of Anthem For Doomed Youth. Remember, it's meant to be a starting point.

I think Nigel's is a perfect response. I'm rather envious!

Comment is about Stockport WOL Prompt 9/9/13 (blog)

Original item by Stockport WoL

It is a rather long poem, Linda. Can't you find a shorter one?

Comment is about Stockport WOL Prompt 9/9/13 (blog)

Original item by Stockport WoL

Thanks Guys. That's down to Andy who came up with great answers to my questions.

Comment is about Smokestack champions the radical and unfashionable (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

Thank you ms.:)

Comment is about Pub Singer (blog)

Original item by Neil Fawcett

Ooo a very atmospheric and evocative piece this...that line about the red nails is immensely pleasing to the eye/ear.

Comment is about Pub Singer (blog)

Original item by Neil Fawcett

Ha, love it Tommy!

Comment is about Liverpool Tate (blog)

Original item by Tommy Carroll

Ticks a few boxes for me too! Hmmm...might be sending a few off to these guys I reckon.

Nice piece, Frances.

Comment is about Smokestack champions the radical and unfashionable (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

Morning!

Haha love the juggling metaphor! No, I know what you mean about it working for you - plenty of times it's been that way for me too, where people don't seem to read it the way I hear it in my head, and in my head, the metre is perfect. No worries mate :)

It's a great poem, you should be made up with it :)

Comment is about Ian Whiteley (poet profile)

Original item by Ian Whiteley

Rock on Tommy! You make your point well and with humour, which I love :)

There's no intrinsic value to much of what gets displayed in these galleries - it's throw away art that might make you think for a minute, but no longer than that.

I've never got too involved in arguments over piles of bricks before or arguing about what art should be - I don't have the energy. And the art exhibition where dead people were opened up and put on display - I found that macabre but not offensive.

Exploitation and degradation of the living is something else though, I find that inexcusable.

Comment is about Liverpool Tate (blog)

Original item by Tommy Carroll

disappointed to not meet locals in Edinburgh for an advertised book reading group, I discover where the Scottish Poetry Library is, then do an impromptu "reading" to a fellow-traveller on the train through to Bristol :)

Comment is about S'hi D'Amour (poet profile)

Original item by S'hi D'Amour

hey Laura - many thanks (once again) for your kind and thoughtful comments on 'cycle of the scarecrow'. I'm really pleased with this one because I originally blogged just one of the 4 'quartets' as a finished piece and then realised there was more to be done :-)
Interesting points about the metre - cos it does work for me (8 syllable count per line) but, because of the technical difficulty in getting all the monorhymes to fit - it makes it bloody hard to keep the meaning, metre, syllable count and rhyme all in sync - like juggling 4 hot pokers with 8 plates of jelly
:-) I'll have a look at it - but, as I say, when I read it I can make the metre work - so it may just be an 'on the paper' glich
Ta
Ian

Comment is about Laura Taylor (poet profile)

Original item by Laura Taylor

thanks for your kind comments on 'cycle of the scarecrow' Starfish - really pleased you like it and keep sticking at the form - it took me a lot of goes to get everything to fit right - but once it does - the feeling is amazing when you think 'ah - NOW it works' :-)
Ian

Comment is about Starfish (poet profile)

Original item by Starfish

thanks for your kind comments on 'cycle of the scarecrow' Jane - I'm glad that you liked it
Ian

Comment is about jane wilcock (poet profile)

Original item by jane wilcock

All done Nigel! This poetess is going to take a little break now as I am starting on my new collection , will be back with some new material soon : ) x

Comment is about Nigel Astell (poet profile)

Original item by Nigel Astell

Yes it did a bit! Thank you for your comment : ) katy

Comment is about Andy N (poet profile)

Original item by Andy N

Me performed at the wolverhampton Art Gallery in 2012.

I enjoyed that performance !

Comment is about picture (photo)

Original item by Marcia Calame

Great idea Laura - I'll have to plan a few more trips to Liverpool - and somehow find a way of blinding all those guards/guides they have hanging around - now I understand why they need so many...

We've missed you too Jane. WOL goes through waves - times when people have time to read and post, and times when they don't. It's always great when friends come back - they add so much value to the site.

Ian - I'm not sure if my poem is a thing of beauty - it was a quick write to vent emotions that were churning me up inside. I feel better for having done it. Art should provoke as well as entertain - but provoke thought for all the right reasons, not the wrong.

I'm just happy if my poem has managed that.

Thank you all again for taking the time to think about it and comment.

Comment is about Turning Over Tables (blog)

Original item by Isobel

To dig
then find
nothing underneath
dig again.

Comment is about Stockport WOL Prompt 9/9/13 (blog)

Original item by Stockport WoL

It seems these poems are aiming to show the reality behind the romantic and pastoral notions that some of us (or me at least) still harbour about country life. I married into a farming family but its easy to forget how relatively comfortable urban existence can sometimes be. Thanks for a great review Cato.

Comment is about Red Devon: Hilary Menos, Seren (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

lot of images in this, marianne. excellent stuff. really enjoyed reading this.

Comment is about Punk (blog)

Original item by Marianne Daniels

Left-field, championing the unfashionable? Well, I guess that ticks a couple of boxes for me. Thanks for this interesting interview with a publisher outside the metropolitan mainstream, Frances.

Comment is about Smokestack champions the radical and unfashionable (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

I can empathise greatly with this having gone through it thrice - and it doesn't get any easier. I even get sad when I pass others on the motorway (cars piled high) enduring the same 'trauma'. The emotion is captured well in this poem.
Starfish

Comment is about Independence Day (blog)

Original item by jane wilcock

Brilliant idea and well executed. Really thoughtful use of rhyme here, keeping each stanza in the one end rhyme.

I bloody love poems that have a cycle...something so satisfying about them.

The story behind it is great too - bit gothic, bit spooky, otherworldly. Who hasn't looked at a scarecrow and shivered to think of it coming alive?!

If there was one thing I would look at, it would be the rhythm in these lines:

ice world. His skeletal delight

with snow-flesh - waiting for coal sight.

Your metre is so strong in the rest of the poem and it falters a little in these two lines.

Enjoyed this Ian - it's great watching you try out loads of different styles and ideas :)

Comment is about Cycle Of The Scarecrow (blog)

Original item by Ian Whiteley

You know what? I think you should print your poem onto flyers, and leave them lying about the Tate. Also, put one up right alongside the video.

Direct action!

Comment is about Turning Over Tables (blog)

Original item by Isobel

Really like this. Impressive. Have tried to use the format and failed miserably. Clever man!
Starfish

Comment is about Cycle Of The Scarecrow (blog)

Original item by Ian Whiteley

This is a great poem cycle and I empathise with the l scarecrow! Lovely images.

Comment is about Cycle Of The Scarecrow (blog)

Original item by Ian Whiteley

A powerful poem .

Comment is about Tunnels (blog)

Original item by Tom

Hi Isobel,
You dont need to see the sweat shops of India through a hidden camera, just turn on the telly and watch them tumble, swallowing their workers in our vicarious greed.
The desire for "shock and awe" is no different and I doubt it completes its aims, as the USA found,but more concerningly it might.
I have mised you and those other thoughtful poets that have summarised!

Comment is about Turning Over Tables (blog)

Original item by Isobel

Powerful, Cynthia. For some reason (perhaps you can explain the connection) it made me think of Song of Isaac by Leonard Cohen -

You who build these altars now
To sacrifice these children,
You must not do it anymore.
A scheme is not a vision
And you never have been tempted
By a demon or a god.
You who stand above them now,
Your hatchets blunt and bloody,
You were not there before,
When I lay upon a mountain
And my father's hand was trembling
With the beauty of the word.

And if you call me brother now,
Forgive me if I inquire,
"Just according to whose plan?"
When it all comes down to dust
I will kill you if I must,
I will help you if I can.
When it all comes down to dust
I will help you if I must,
I will kill you if I can...."

Comment is about Metaphor (blog)

Original item by Cynthia Buell Thomas