Re; your further comments on The Hard Seat Isobel - absolutely I couldn't agree more - great to get the help with fine-tuning too

Comment is about Isobel (poet profile)

Original item by Isobel

Happy New Year you! I completely mis-read Cynthia's poem then - for some reason I thought the tea cupboard was hers. Imagined you stopping off on the way to your Hebden experience. I shall definitely have to partake of this hobbit hole experience LOL. Look forward to catching up with you at the Tudor next week - hopefully.
xx

Comment is about Elaine (poet profile)

Original item by Elaine

Cynthia - I liked girlhood very much. It sounds very poignant to me. As a woman reflecting on one's girlhood is something very different to childhood. Girlhood evokes the awakening woman, the fresh beauty of a young girl etc etc. Childhood is something else - different word, different sense altogether. I also got something of the washing powder as an accoutrement of adult womanhood versus the magical imaginings of a girl to whom soap flakes look like snow rather than denoting hard graft. I loved "atlas arms" and, of course, "cellar of my girlhood".

Comment is about Winter Walk (blog)

Original item by Cynthia Buell Thomas

Hi, Isobel. Since the tea cupboard Cynthia refers to so beautifully is mine and since it appeals to you - you must come and see my hobbit hole sometime!!!! Love your new pic - it's really beautiful, such a cheering lovely smile. Happy New Year! x

Comment is about Isobel (poet profile)

Original item by Isobel

Hi Isobel - many thanks for commenting on The Hard Seat - yes the experience was certainly for me an instant cure for trivial suffering - and a long-term wondering about how people struggle through their lives that way

Comment is about Isobel (poet profile)

Original item by Isobel

No that makes perfect sense. One of my Mum's Favourites is 'Not Waving But Drowning' and she was mortified when she recently heard a recording in the poets own voice!

Comment is about Mark Mr T Thompson (poet profile)

Original item by Mark Mr T Thompson

Isobel -"I would agree that men have great qualities also - let me scratch my head while I think of one ;-)"- we have dicks - does that not count as one ? :D
(well, one dick each, to be accurate)

Comment is about Equally bad (AKA Rantings of an antisexist man in a post-feminist world) (blog)

Original item by Mark Mr T Thompson

Hi John - was very flattered by your kind comments on The Hard Seat and will wait to see if there are any other valid comments before tinkering with it but I have already earmarked one or two of your suggestions for improvement - very much obliged

Comment is about John Aikman (poet profile)

Original item by John Aikman

Hi Laura,

Can a poem be critiqued differently to an essay? I believe so, especially when it frequently makes it clear that the statements contained are subjective (see language like seems, tend, appears, I guess). For me subjectivity and poetry are intrinsically linked, but I would state that as a personal opinion. I even question my own sanity in to the bargain! Essays I would say, need more balance and objectivity, the reference to poetic licence, was guess what, a more poetic way to put this point!

Is a man allowed to explore these issues from his own perspective? I would say I happen to be one of the males that have these tendencies and have had society outside of my parental home attempting to bang them out of me from a very young age, with constant comments from so called liberal educated (and occasionally feminist) individuals who questioned my sexuality as a result.

Are you perhaps applying out-dated interpretations to words that have a meaning that could be broader?

I return to the fact that this is supposed to create debate not convince you of my opinion, From that perspective alone it has been successful.

That, is the edited version of my response! :o)

Comment is about Equally bad (AKA Rantings of an antisexist man in a post-feminist world) (blog)

Original item by Mark Mr T Thompson

How about nice? ;) x

You can let your imagine wander you know - you don't always have to tell it like it is. Those dogs didn't need to be chasing the balls... I can imagine what John Aikman would be doing with them...

Comment is about Ruchill Park, Glasgow 10 a.m. 29th December 2010 (blog)

Original item by Dave Bradley

Thanks for commenting Greg, Andy, Izz and John. This website is like a Carry-on film sometimes (-: An excess of balls? Well,(boring explanation mode) you must have thrown the occasional ball to a dog. When they're chasing it, that's all they can think of, and the repetition was deliberate - to reflect the dog's tunnel vision.

Another word for lovely? The trees aren't majestic or particularly beautiful. There aren't a huge number of them but somehow they have the character of a small wood, even though they're not. Blowed if I know how to sum that up in one word - wish I could

Comment is about Ruchill Park, Glasgow 10 a.m. 29th December 2010 (blog)

Original item by Dave Bradley

I'm gonna stick my oar in here - just for a minute. It will probably take Mark a while coming back to answer all those points.

I'd just like to say that I don't see what is wrong with posting a poem that has generalisation in it. If every poem had to be about bang on certainties, we would all be pretty restricted. At the end of the day, we are all coming at poetry from different experiences and backgrounds and that will colour our opinions.

Regarding women making better nurturers - I would have to agree with that generalisation. Like it or not there is a pronounced difference between males and females from birth. I have observed children play - from being very tiny they choose different toys, play differently and it isn't a question of conditioning - it is a question of choice.

Granted there will always be the exceptions to the rule like you and me Laura (my favourite toy was a cannon that smashed all my mum's pictures to bits) but on the whole the genders tend to follow a behaviour pattern from childhood - it is instinctive.

I would agree that men have great qualities also - let me scratch my head while I think of one ;-)

I would agree that extreme feminism harmed the cause if anything but can also see the point that it threw the issue into the public eye - much like the suffragettes.

I would agree with your point 7 Laura - though I think Mark is connecting loss of listening skills with the loutish, belligerent behaviour of a certain type of youth.

Tee hee - I did warn you Mark...

Comment is about Equally bad (AKA Rantings of an antisexist man in a post-feminist world) (blog)

Original item by Mark Mr T Thompson

Nice one. I agree with Greg though, 'lovely trees' isn't very illuminating...deer, dear.

*shakes his head slowly*

:-)

Jx

Comment is about Ruchill Park, Glasgow 10 a.m. 29th December 2010 (blog)

Original item by Dave Bradley

cheers philipos much appreciated im just trying to find my mojo again so to speak ???

Comment is about childhood (blog)

Original item by alan barlow

too much use of balls... I love it...but now you mention it Andy...

Comment is about Ruchill Park, Glasgow 10 a.m. 29th December 2010 (blog)

Original item by Dave Bradley

Thx for the comment on the latest Dave- insightful and appreciated.

I was thinking about this idea/poem in the wider context rather than simply the personal.

On which note; maybe you could detail that biblical story and reference over that pint we mentioned.

Chris

Comment is about Dave Bradley (poet profile)

Original item by Dave Bradley

Thx for the feedback Andy- appreciated.

The lip service comment...yea it is one of those where you can open your mouth and heart simultaneously and wish you had done neither.

Chris

Comment is about Andy N (poet profile)

Original item by Andy N

Hi Laura, Thx for the feedback on my latest- appreciated.

Words are great but I don't think they fix everything...sounds like you have felt the same way.

Chris

Comment is about Laura Taylor (poet profile)

Original item by Laura Taylor

Hi Isobel- thx for the feedback and thought on my latest.

I agree with what you were saying...made/makes sense.

Not always easy to try and explain different points when it is between the lines stuff.

Hope I didn't sound odd in trying to wrestle my own logic to the floor.

It was good to get some real thoughts going on the issue.

Chris

Comment is about Isobel (poet profile)

Original item by Isobel

This is a purler - love the measured pace/economy of words which gives it so much oomph

Comment is about childhood (blog)

Original item by alan barlow

like the repeating at the end of this, Dave although it did throw me a bit the first stanza as i originally thought there was two much use of balls... enjoyed it still..

Comment is about Ruchill Park, Glasgow 10 a.m. 29th December 2010 (blog)

Original item by Dave Bradley

Hi Mark

Firstly, you mention below that you would actively encourage ideological critique, but then go on to say 'This is after all a poem not a theoretical lecture, so the term poetic licence may apply' - am a bit confused as to what you want from the feedback, but as you have requested, here's a bit more...you did ask!

Re Rad Feminism - as I've already stated, I believe it to be an important step in the process, but I don't think it should continue as a current way of thinking. As with Malcolm X/Nation of Islam, it is a separatist movement - is that the way to reach equality? Malcolm X reached the conclusion that it wasn't. The Rad Fems took an aggressive inversely sexist position, which merely replicated a hierarchy. Doesn't solve anything ultimately, just pits people against each other.

The first verse, lines 3 and 4 - I don't understand. The culture is what is instinct? Which important female qualities? The nurturing?

Transgender pat on the back? I don't understand why t/g comes into it.

Generalisations:

1. Women make the best nurturers

2. Further to my confusion outlined above, I will take the understanding of 'important female qualities' being female. Why female? That's a huge disservice you do to men there, not to mention setting boundaries for women.

3. Derided almost everywhere - are they? Is it? Do you mean in the media, or in the massively diverse society we have?

4. Ladettes? Outdated terminology, as is the phrase 'equal but different'. The latter is Victorian in origin, in terms of feminist discourse, and it both sets and limits all genders, by fencing in 'masculine' and 'feminine' qualities, and instructs people as to how they should be.

5. 'feminine quality'? As above. How so? Who says? Equanimity's definition is in opposition to the psychological and media-favoured representations of women as irrational beings.

6. Again with sex and gender - if we're talking aggression, how about the Rad Fems Scum Manifesto, and Dworkin's theory that all men are potential rapists, that heterosexual penetrative sex is rape?

7. Why does powerful projection equal a lack of listening skills? What is this based on?

Sorry for the epic, but like I said, you did ask!

Again, disclaimer that this is not being negative for negativity's sake, just explaining as requested.

Comment is about Equally bad (AKA Rantings of an antisexist man in a post-feminist world) (blog)

Original item by Mark Mr T Thompson

Enjoyed your poetry samples, Louise.

Comment is about Louise Fazackerley (poet profile)

Original item by Louise Fazackerley

I like the way you have made so much of one of those curious moments that happen ever so often. Also like the contrast of the beautiful deer and the old woman - both seeking freedom in their very disparate ways.

Comment is about Ruchill Park, Glasgow 10 a.m. 29th December 2010 (blog)

Original item by Dave Bradley

Hi Laura, thanks for reading this.

Yes my mother IS a radical feminist, her definition not yours so I guess she can own that. Without the radicals in any area there is no middle ground, no acceptance of Dr King without Malcolm, so while I agree media mis-representations warp opinion, the radical is in my opinion vital. If it wasn't for people like my mother, you yourself would be considered by others as a radical, even if you didn't consider yourself one!

Which are the generalisations that you feel are outdated or excessive? Can you explain why?

Hard to respond to such generalised comment, you guys haven't even got the excuse of attempting to be lyrical! ;)

This is after all a poem not a theoretical lecture, so the term poetic licence may apply.

Comment is about Equally bad (AKA Rantings of an antisexist man in a post-feminist world) (blog)

Original item by Mark Mr T Thompson

Enjoyed the sentiments and pace of this, Dave. Thought maybe the trees could be something other than "lovely"?

Comment is about Ruchill Park, Glasgow 10 a.m. 29th December 2010 (blog)

Original item by Dave Bradley

This leaves me bemused. As mentioned, it is one almighty set of generalisations, many of which I disagree with, and many of which are outdated.

Your mother is a RADICAL feminist? Even now? Whilst it was a hugely important movement, and had some excellent points, feminism moved on a heck of a lot since it was first proposed as a theory. I find it way too separatist and damaging, ultimately. It's my belief, based on experience, that too many young women these days reject feminism/ists on account of radical feminism, as that is the only form of feminism ever represented by our lovely media.

There's some interesting points in here, but to me, it's just way too outdated and generalising to be making any kind of a statement.

I am a feminist by the way, but don't adhere to any one theory - my beliefs are taken from those parts of Socialist, Existentialist, and Postmodern feminism that I identify with. Certainly not anything that is separatist and limiting.

Apologies if this comes across as negative btw, but you did welcome debate.

Comment is about Equally bad (AKA Rantings of an antisexist man in a post-feminist world) (blog)

Original item by Mark Mr T Thompson

Thanks for taking the time to read and comment, much appreciated :-)

Comment is about Dave Bradley (poet profile)

Original item by Dave Bradley

Thanks for taking the time to read and comment, much appreciated :-)

Comment is about Dave Bradley (poet profile)

Original item by Dave Bradley

Thank you Dave - I think you are spot on with the assessment - much obliged for the encouragement

Comment is about Dave Bradley (poet profile)

Original item by Dave Bradley

Enjoyed this, Ian. My childhood was a little later, but there were many echoes in it of what you so well describe, and reading this has stirred it up.

Comment is about A Fifties Childhood (blog)

Original item by Ian Gant

Hi Isobel, thanx for comment, am doin poetry to music with Andy N, you never know might try this!

Look forward to seeing you thurs @ Guitar n Verse! Jeff X

Comment is about Isobel (poet profile)

Original item by Isobel

Provokes a strong feeling of being trapped. Powerful one, Kath

Comment is about (blog)

Original item by Kath Hewitt

Well I'm glad to hear it isn't based on true life Ray - the wife is spared the cricket bat for the time being...

Comment is about The Unspeakably Familiar (blog)

No probs - your poem inspired me in part to write a poem just. It's pretty rough so I'm not sure if it'll ever get finished or make it on here - like most of my stuff!

Comment is about Kath Hewitt (poet profile)

Original item by Kath Hewitt

Hi Alison, thanx for your nice comment about my poem, much appreciated. Not had chance to comment on WOL for a while so missed your work, will have a good look soon tho, best wishes Jeff X

Comment is about Alison Smiles (poet profile)

Original item by Alison Smiles

I happen to like seeing girls fighting & pissing in the streets - especially the latter ;)
And I see Isobel's jumped up on her soapbox..... again!!
Seriously - great points, well made and ones that we could talk through forever.
And Isobel's a sweetie.
True equality & mutual respect can only be a good thing & I'm all for it. As for sacrificing a career (many careers) to have kids - well, that's a choice & a biological fact - that women are the ones with a womb (the clue's in the name). No-one ever said life was fair. We men have our crosses to bear as well (putting up with wimmin for a start :D )

Comment is about Equally bad (AKA Rantings of an antisexist man in a post-feminist world) (blog)

Original item by Mark Mr T Thompson

Many thanks, Winston... for your sojourn and kindly response to my poem, "Buttered." You are much appreciated. Cheers, Frederick

Comment is about Winston Plowes (poet profile)

Original item by Winston Plowes

Wonderful emotional textures evoked by poignant lines. And what striking images as Lux flakes wafted into the tub in the cellar. An awesome poem. Thanks for sharing.

Comment is about Winter Walk (blog)

Original item by Cynthia Buell Thomas

Aye, Cynthia... and what a beautiful madness poetry is! Thanks for dropping in and responding to my poem, 'Buttered.'.

Comment is about Cynthia Buell Thomas (poet profile)

Original item by Cynthia Buell Thomas

Hi Andy,

Thank you for reading and commenting - yet again!
I seem to have been unable to write anything for a looong time, i think maybe this was a one off!!

:-)

Comment is about Andy N (poet profile)

Original item by Andy N

Hi Ann,

Thanks for reading and commenting again x

Comment is about Ann Foxglove (poet profile)

Original item by Ann Foxglove

Hi Winston, thanks for reading x

Comment is about Winston Plowes (poet profile)

Original item by Winston Plowes

hi isobel, thanks for reading yet again x

Comment is about Isobel (poet profile)

Original item by Isobel

Thanks, Andy, Ann and Isobel.This is actually a precis of the first chapter of a not very famous novel.

Comment is about The Unspeakably Familiar (blog)

My mother tried (and she would say failed) to sum it up in a 10,000 word (well that was the target length, she handed it in incomplete at around twice that length) dissertation, so I think to suggest it could have been done in one poem, much less 25 words, without recourse to generalisation is a bit like hoping the answer to life the universe and everything is 42!
Even if it was the 'right answer' you would not have space or time to adequately context it with the question.

Comment is about Equally bad (AKA Rantings of an antisexist man in a post-feminist world) (blog)

Original item by Mark Mr T Thompson

I suppose equality of the sexes/ agreement on traits of the sexes/ behavioural issues/ how we nurture/ how we respect the nurturers - is all a huge subject matter for one poem. I did go off on a bit of a tangent with my earlier comments - homing in on aspects of inequality that have got to me. I suppose they weren't the issues that are core to your poem.
I enjoyed the poem cos it made me think about something that has touched my life big style. I've even started writing a poem about it! It is a piece of catharsis though - so I'm umming and aaghing about whether to finish and post.

I thought your summary was fair. I like to see poetry on here handling serious issues also.

Comment is about Equally bad (AKA Rantings of an antisexist man in a post-feminist world) (blog)

Original item by Mark Mr T Thompson

Thanks Charlene! Did you hear the audio version at the top or just read it?

Comment is about Mark Mr T Thompson (poet profile)

Original item by Mark Mr T Thompson

Hi Julian, thanks for taking the time to read and respond. My aim is not really to seek agreement with this piece, rather to prompt debate, which it seems to be doing quite well.

Having stated in the opening sentence that I am a feminist I am not sure how I could be more clear about beliefs. I feel that what could be descibed as feminine personality traits (a useful generalisation I feel) tend to be considered of less value.

The bluffers guide would read, "We spotted gender inequality and mistakenly thought that everyone being more masculine was an improvement. Perhaps there was/is/maybe a better way! Please discuss"

Comment is about Equally bad (AKA Rantings of an antisexist man in a post-feminist world) (blog)

Original item by Mark Mr T Thompson