Congratulations, Stephen, on being included in this. It is for a very worthy cause.
Comment is about Save the children (blog)
Original item by Stephen W Atkinson
My thanks to David, Graham, RG and MC for their comments.
This poem was written against the background of the widening of conscription in Ukraine and of attempts to bring back men of fighting age from abroad. A number of conscientious objectors have also been imprisoned in Ukraine.
I don't disagree with any of the comments. They all make valid points. I struggle with this subject because, while I detest war and the idea of fighting my fellow man, there is plainly a contradiction in pacifism i.e. how do you deal with an invader who is hell-bent on killing you to conquer your country? (Or, as Graham points out, wants to harm your family). When does a refuse to take part in self-defence become unreasonable? And should one not be required (and allowed) to serve in a non-combattant capacity? I think that the comments bring out these contradictions very clearly.
One thing, concerning David's comments. By the 'ranks of hate', I did not mean to imply that all soldiers at the front were infused with hate. It was simply a poetic description of the 'war machine' from a pacifist's viewpoint.
This discussion brings to mind an episode from World War 2. When Benjamin Britten applied to be a conscientious objector, Ralph Vaughan Williams (who was not at all a pacifist) spoke up for him, saying that, while he disagreed with Britten's views, he believed that we were fighting for a way of life which allowed people to hold such views.
And my thanks to John C, Tom D, Stephen A, Holden, K Lynn, Hélène, Manish, Bethany, Auracle, Keletso and Prakhar for liking this one.
Comment is about Draft Dodger (blog)
Original item by Stephen Gospage
7eVen
Wed 1st May 2024 14:26
Your bittersweet,vivid pen is moving.
Keep up the writing.
7eVen.x
Comment is about Melancholy. (blog)
Original item by Kay D. Gould
Thank you very much for reading and for your insightful comments...much appreciated.
Comment is about Kim Phúc The Napalm Girl (blog)
Original item by Mike Bartram
Tim 👍
Holden 👍
Stephen 👍
Tom 👍
MUCHO!
Comment is about INTO INCENDIARY MARTYRDOM (blog)
Original item by leon stolgard
Wed 1st May 2024 12:15
Thanks for the Like, RAP.
The ladies did enjoy it, Helene. I gave it to them framed and it’s going on the wall.
I got a freebie coffee out of it. Time was they might have thanked me differently!
Comment is about SPRING CAFE (blog)
Original item by John Coopey
Wed 1st May 2024 09:53
Thank you, Holden. Helene, Auracle.
I think that we all. share the same appreciation.
Bethany
Comment is about W.O.L's WORTH (blog)
Original item by Bethany Sallis
Thanks for all the recent likes on this.
David
Comment is about The indefinite sentence (blog)
Original item by David RL Moore
The old greeks did it and it was sort of taboo. And it still is. I don't care, I love men, women, humans. I romance men, women humans. I sex men, women, humans.
Just not anybody
Comment is about Queering the Landscape (blog)
Original item by Lee Campbell
No doubt in my mind, gents, that quite a lot, if not all , blame for this devastation, can be placed on those ( many in high office ) back-handed receivers and,
run in same way as the illegal ivory smuggling trade and, not forgetting to mention, the very long list of demanded, and, illegally supplied other ' live goods '
Many many thanks to, Stephen, Holden, Manish, David.
Bethany
Comment is about Haiku; illegal loggers. (blog)
Original item by Bethany Sallis
Very much enjoyed this Keira.
Comment is about Uncalculated Coitus (blog)
Original item by Keira Anne
Many thanks for the comments and likes.
I'd held on to this for a while wondering if it would appeal to anyone.
I'm pleased I put it up now.
David.
Comment is about The indefinite sentence (blog)
Original item by David RL Moore
Teenage is such a complicated stage of life, it often makes one do senseless, stupid things such as tattoos. I feel that getting a tattoo on your skin is a huge step, you are letting something artistic be a part of your body for the rest of your life (atleast until it fades away), so, it needs to be thoroughly thought out, twice or thrice, and then be done.
All the mistakes, experiments and experiences of teenage only mould us for the further stages of life is what I believe.
Thank you for the comment, Graham.
Comment is about Treacherous Tattoo (blog)
Original item by Manish
Haha, I loved this, Hélène! I loved how it ended. "You take care of you,
I take care of me," is so important in a relationship.
Thank you.
Comment is about Love Song (blog)
Original item by Hélène
A superb poem, Keletso. I connected a lot with this. I loved the lines,
"We thrived for seasons,
Your roots delved deep,
We danced with the sun,
Secrets we'd keep."
Thank you for this.
Comment is about Whispers of winter (blog)
Original item by Keletso
Have been there before, and I couldn't agree more. In hindsight, I used to be lost too and I think that's how the teenage usually is to most of us. Nicely done, Prakhar. Keep writing!💪
Comment is about The Evolution Within (blog)
Original item by prakhar dhama
Thank you very much indeed Stephen.
Bethany
Comment is about Haiku; illegal loggers. (blog)
Original item by Bethany Sallis
Thank you Stephen for your kind words & MC for your insight. We now have a wheelchair for my wife on our travels but she is a stoic and very determined Irishwoman, so the 56 stone steps up to our favourite holiday home in Southern Turkey are a challenge to be overcome with a stick and my arm. Once there the view and serenity make it all worthwhile.
Comment is about Bungalow Dreaming (blog)
Original item by R A Porter
This is one of the best poems i have read. That 4th stanza, just amazed me.
Thank you.
Comment is about The indefinite sentence (blog)
Original item by David RL Moore
Great subject matter. Marked for life one chapter at least!
Comment is about Treacherous Tattoo (blog)
Original item by Manish
It's a fantastic composition, David.
So many lines strike a personal chord that I'm left wondering how to address them within myself, nevermind how I can ably approach them in a public forum.
Maybe the key is in the process and not the result )
Comment is about The indefinite sentence (blog)
Original item by David RL Moore
Monkey see Monkey Typhoo tea do, before he gets on his Tandem
Bethany
Comment is about FOLLY'S FOOL (blog)
Original item by M.C. Newberry
Praise be to you for your modestty, John. Thank you.
Bethany
Comment is about FOG at SEA (blog)
Original item by John E Marks
This gave me the same melancholy pleasure as the song 'I'll remember April". Thank you.
Comment is about I Remember Joy (blog)
Original item by Tom Doolan
Sincerely sorry about your Mum., M. C. May she rest in peace and, may God bless her. Thank you for the very kind comment.
Bethany
Comment is about Final visit? ( fictional ) (blog)
Original item by Bethany Sallis
Bungalow life has much to commend it, not least when reaching a certain age or a personal situation of diminished mobility. Certainly, JC's point about keeping movement going is valid and I have four flights of communal stairs to aid my aims in that direction whenever I leave my flat. I've become a dab hand at using a pair of sticks up and down!
Comment is about Bungalow Dreaming (blog)
Original item by R A Porter
Strong stuff! Although fictional, it is a powerful insight into a desperately sad situation. It took my own mind back to attendances at my mother's bedside in the last weeks of a
long life, albeit that she was free from intrusive medical apparatus. The feeling of personal impotence remains all powerful.
Comment is about Final visit? ( fictional ) (blog)
Original item by Bethany Sallis
It is essentially a matter of context.
Pacifism in the ultimate sense of abhorrence at killing another is understsndable, but should not prevent offering service in another capacity in time of justified conflict, e.g. Defence of one's country. Concientious objectors in time of war are all too ready to enjoy the fruits of peace hard won by others.
Comment is about Draft Dodger (blog)
Original item by Stephen Gospage
The freedom to dance...
The freedom to love what is good for goodness' sake...
"The desire to be loved is the last illusion. Give it up and you will be free.” - Margaret Atwood
Comment is about Love Song (blog)
Original item by Hélène
I read this before it disappeared briefly and I am so glad you re-posted it!. I am not a gay man and sometimes struggle to understand gay writing but your final stanza is really very very good. Well done!
'We are bluebells.
Wandering barefooted
through the bluebells
amongst brambled thorn.
And when stung,
when trampled over,
queer love is
our dock leaf'
Comment is about Queering the Landscape (blog)
Original item by Lee Campbell
We applaud Russian draft dodgers yet we abhor Ukrainians. It's a funny old world.
Comment is about Draft Dodger (blog)
Original item by Stephen Gospage
There is one line in there I would question here.
'Why should we join the ranks of hate" supposes that to kill one has to hate. With respect I find that line too simplistic and a little dissmissive. You should know this is not the case, it is the case that states promote hate to facilitate a moral excuse to kill. Most who have been in deadly conflict understand this manipulation and that it is exactly that. Obviously there are those occasions when you come to hate an enemy. I do think that line is a little presumptive of all those who fight and possibly indicative of an absense of understanding of those who have never been called upon to do so.
Visions of Orwell's "Two minute hate" come to mind...that is a conditioning that not all succumb to.
David
Comment is about Draft Dodger (blog)
Original item by Stephen Gospage
I cannot countenance killing another man but if my family were threatened I wouldn’t think twice.
In a conflict such as Ukraine for example I don’t think they have a choice unless they choose subservience
Another thought provoking write Stephen! Thanks for keeping Write Out Loud aware and awake!
Comment is about Draft Dodger (blog)
Original item by Stephen Gospage
Thank you for your kind comment Stephen 🙂
Thanks for likes - Holden, Kelso & Stephen 👍
Comment is about I Remember Joy (blog)
Original item by Tom Doolan
This could be a glimpse at life on the terraces of my home town of Huchnall. Saturday night at the Miners Welfare. Sunday morning headache. (I believe it was set in Nottingham.)
Comment is about Saturday Night and Sunday Morning (blog)
Original item by Stephen Gospage
That 60’s group had got the answer, Lee. The Small Faeces.
Comment is about POO IN THE LOO (blog)
Original item by Lee Campbell
An interesting and challenging poem Stephen.
My Father was pacifist and declined his call up during national service, he was at theological college at the time. I was unaware of this fact until later in my own life, I did contemplate pacifism during my military service.
My thoughts on pacifism were largely influenced by meeting pacifists who were being oppressed and sometimes murdered, certainly persecuted. Initially what jarred with me was my own position of being their defender by proxy, I couldn't understand the dynamic or relate to how someone might choose not to physically defend themselves.
I came to understand the pacifist stance only by speaking with pacifist's, some arrived at their belief via religious teachings some were humanists, all had deep convictions on the position of not killing.
I came to respect their bravery in the face of others who would mock and even treat them as outcasts because of their refusal to kill or be part of a machine that does/did.
I still cannot completely understand the refusal to not take up arms to defend oneself. I am fortunate that I have been tested in that fashion and know that I will defend myself with extreme prejudice should the moment arise. There is a difference between taking up arms in immediate proximity to danger and the taking up of arms to go to a fight not yet initiated. My question would be where is the line and is it not right that we should be ready instead of leaving it to others to defend us. That said I respect immensly the choice and stoic steadfastness of those who choose not to kill.
I am not a pacifist but I wish everyone could be.
David
PS. As with many ideas in order to process them I take their principles to their extremes. I imagine someone who calls themselves a pacifist in a situation of seeing his/her loved ones executed in front of them, in those moments would they stick firm to their principles or not, if not they are not a pacifist. It is difficult for me to imagine anyone not succumbing to such provocation, that said I know people have resisted under those circumstances.
If the idea of defence becomes obsolete how do we defend the weak and vulnerable? Which is a greater crime, to permit the killing of the weak or to defend them by killing those who would kill them.
The solution surely lies within the options we give ourselves to disable the circumstances that facilitate killing. Humanity is not yet evolved to that place, I doubt it ever will.
Comment is about Draft Dodger (blog)
Original item by Stephen Gospage
Thankyou for your thoughts, Helene, MC, and Stephen. And for the Likes, Larisa, Holden, Stephen A and Graham.
Comment is about SPRING CAFE (blog)
Original item by John Coopey
A rich and powerful poem, David. Thank you.
Comment is about The indefinite sentence (blog)
Original item by David RL Moore
This is delightful and really well-read, RA. Thanks very much.
Comment is about Bungalow Dreaming (blog)
Original item by R A Porter
A moving, almost shocking poem, Bethany. The conclusion is quite devastating.
Comment is about Final visit? ( fictional ) (blog)
Original item by Bethany Sallis
Wonderful, John. You've released you inner Betjeman (again)!
Comment is about SPRING CAFE (blog)
Original item by John Coopey
Thank you, Greg and Bethany. Yes, this was a memorable time for cinema and theatre. Working class heroes (and heroines) with anger and ambition. Also the transition to the post-war boom against a background of slums and bomb-damaged towns.
Thanks for your verse, Bethany. I think I'll get my own ice cream, in spite of your kind offer!
And my thanks to Nigel, Trevor, Holden, Manish and Rob for the likes.
Comment is about Saturday Night and Sunday Morning (blog)
Original item by Stephen Gospage
Thank you everybody. You are great. Love.
Comment is about Bag of mental luggage. (blog)
Original item by RudyardK
Yes sir!
I agree
a cup of tea
is the reme-dy!
Comment is about FOLLY'S FOOL (blog)
Original item by M.C. Newberry
Jon
Wed 1st May 2024 14:48
Thanks, Stephen
Comment is about New Life (blog)
Original item by Jon63