Laura Taylor

Cause and Effect

by Laura Taylor

Wednesday 10th August 2011 2:20 pm

So you working class who slag the youth

out on the streets to fight and loot –

you despise the underclass,

but don’t you know from where they came?

From our backyards, in Thatcher’s reign

She fractured our communities

“No such thing as society”

Took away identity

Took away our pride

Took away cohesion

Broke the miner’s strike

Broke your right to use your voice

to fight against the cuts

Fragmented proletariat

Kicked us in the guts

Once we had dignity, work, and a wage

Now we have anger, no voice, and blind rage

Put working class people in a state of desolation

Replaced our honest values with their greed and alienation

Broken fucking Britain?!

Ask yourself who broke it

Ask why people can’t afford

to pay their rent, to go abroad

like Tory Boy and Whipping Boy

Was it the bankers and the robbers

with their bonuses and lies?

Was it the greedy and illegal ways

they dripped our money dry?

But do they pay for it? No it’s US that pay for it

but there isn’t any money left

U.S.A. in big fat debt

Euro in a total mess

The dispossessed want to possess

the things they can’t afford

They’re happy because currently

their actions are of import

So instead of taking out your ire

On ignorant young kids

Let’s try looking at the cause

of the effects we’re living in

Opportunist looting is what the bankers did

On a massive scale, anonymous, and got away with it

Are they being punished for their life-destroying crimes?

Cos you can bet your arse the kids who loot will do the fucking time

◄ Scarlet Ribbons

For a Friend ►

Comments

Mike Hilton

Fri 20th Jan 2012 10:50

A great read Laura- Straight away it makes you sit up and take notice. I can imagine you delivering this in your own energetic and unique style. Loved it!

Martin Peacock

Thu 19th Jan 2012 14:52

Hey hey, me fellow libertarian: this is a cracking read - another to be heard too; shades of the almighty J. Cooper-Clarke? It has a similar motorik rhythm to it that I can hear in pieces like his 'Evidently Chickentown' [itself a borrowing from the equally fiery, and traditional 'Orkney Blast'] and 'Psycle Sluts'. I was particularly engaged by,
'Once we had dignity, work, and a wage
Now we have anger, no voice, and blind rage
Put working class people in a state of desolation
Replaced our honest values with their greed and alienation'

I'm right with you on the Bible comments, by the way; all thanks to the Council of Nicea in the 4th century we now have to put up with not only the Paulinian interpretation of Jesus' teachings [self-aggrandising asshole that Saul was], but also the lamentable exclusion of many of the orig. books intended for inclusion, e.g. those that gave a clearer and more positive role to Mary Magdalen and his mother.

Re: some of the comments you got on this poem; it throws me into spiralling despair whenever someone says something about it being/not being 'human nature' to behave in a certain way. What utter bollocks to say that working towards 'Utopia' [a woeful misrepresentation of the kind of fairer society you and I believe in anyway] is not a part of our 'remit'. Whenever someone appeals this way my first thought is, 'you're simply excusing your own continuing bad behaviour.' And as for us living in a mamby [sic] pamby society....grrrr! Parental responsibility has gone awry, I admit [when my car was stolen I met the culprit and his mother in court; not once did she either acknowledge me or direct him to apologise for his behaviour] but violence towards one's own children shows a barely creditable lack of maturity. Why can't these people accept that they're not approaching their progeny's upbringing with anything resembling a good example? Crikey, my spleen's just ruptured...

Keep up the good fight, ya'll!

Chris Co

Wed 24th Aug 2011 07:06

IMO this is really good social commentary.
For my money it is poetic, yet stated and correctly tough and edgy.

If it was much more poetic it would feel less stated,less real and fail.

kick ass!

My Best

Chris

Elaine Booth

Tue 16th Aug 2011 22:36

A great performance piece, Laura. And as I know how nervous you were about the reaction you'd get, very, very brave of you to perfom it too.

Poetry that gets us thinking is always going to be a good thing. I feel very strongly that poetry should not be cosy and nice but should make us all sit up and take notice.

We all need to look at our values and beliefs every now and again and answer the question, whether we have got it right or whether we need to modify what we think. None of us get it right all the time.

Listening carefully to each other is what matters: even if we agree to disagree we can still respect and care about each other - very much, as it happens.

A wonderful blog. XXXX

Dave Carr

Tue 16th Aug 2011 17:39

I think there are some stocks up at Rivington. (Just kidding) I thought the rhyming came across well when I heard this at the Tudor. Some good points about the bankers and high finanvce. No excuses though. But probably the most commented poem of the month - didn't want to miss out.

Andy N

Sat 13th Aug 2011 09:23

lot of good stuff here, folks.. good to see poetry that makes you all discuss things through as great as this.. i've got a nice ranting one i must put up which i finished the other day too about cuts.. keep it going folks! A

Julian (Admin)

Fri 12th Aug 2011 19:30

Jeez Laura, how can you say that? It is clear that we need to flog them all and hang them in public, why don't we? I'm sure that will work. Sure of it.

Einstein once said, (and I am repeating myself, I know)that to every complex human problem there is always a simple solution; and it's almost invariably wrong.

Alternatively, we could try to understand the factors at work in our society that have created the conditions in which people feel it's OK to behave like this. I mean, it's not as if our politicians, police, large companies, bankers behave in selfish, short-term, grab-what-you-can-whilst-you-can ways now, is it? So, were are their role models?
The directors of Southern Cross Nursing Home who made a multi-million pound killing by selling the 'care' homes and leasing them back, could not care less about their residents. A year or two later the company goes bust. do they have to repay their big fat profit made at the residents' expense? nope. Short-term profit is the game. Grab it now. Where are they on the courts' lists?
You have it bang on, Laura, as to the source. Maggie 'there's no such thing as society' Thatcher. A self-fulfilling comment.
We are run by a government of millionaires who, no matter how well-meaning they might consider themselves, have absolutely no idea how the rest of Britain lives.
The UK spring?

Dave Bradley

Fri 12th Aug 2011 17:43

Really really interesting discussion. People may like to know that the Toxteth community in Liverpool, working with the police, has identified significant numbers of vehicles and occupants trying to come into the area to cause trouble. This is ordinary people getting active and caring about and protecting their community

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Toxteth-Against-The-Riots/139844202770437

Lynn Dye

Thu 11th Aug 2011 21:56

Well done, Laura, very much enjoyed your poem, and also the discussion from all on here. I also feel sorrow at such distruction, and can blame parenting up to a point, but I also look at the bigger picture, and while it doesn't excuse their behaviour, we should try and understand the cause and effect. I agree with your views on governments and banking; in fact, my other half could have written this too!

Jeff Dawson

Thu 11th Aug 2011 20:11

Mrs Thatcher speaks very highly of you! Enjoyed your rant, some great points and who would have thought China would be the currently in charge of the world after the yanks and ourselves have had a go over the last couple of centuries running it, long live the all you can eat buffet!

Seriously though sad state of affairs and while there are reasons that some folk want to vent anger that wasn't the original cause of the trouble or the end of it, a lot of the rioters are either in work in decemt jobs, have wealthy parents, (had) good prospects or werent old enough to work (or sign on as the case may be), and hardly underfed or hard done to on their mobiles or blackberries), those who might have had a cause got lost in that.

I don't know the answer to that, some people like the thrill a bit like the football hooligan who works for a bank or solicitors etc, not even to do with rivalry!

There are of course deep rooted problems and I have to agree with a lot of the things you (and Bob on facebook!) have said. I said to Bob, the govt have been naive to implement the extreme cuts at such a rapid rate and all this was no surprise for those who are oppressed to make a point even if the cause was something else that sparked it off. I work in benefits, yeah something needs doing to get more people off the sick, etc, etc, but doing what, evrywhere is losing jobs and theres already 2 million unemployed, the maths dont work, after the miners, poll tax, students, G8 summits, it aint rocket science that this will happen at the slightest chance.

we need to value society, and give hope to those who do need it, not take the piss with bonuses when even the banks lose money and so on, I just hope that the good relations that have been built between police and communities dont take as long to heal, and that the people who care about this country get it back to the tolerant society we are fortunate enough to have and show the dignity expressed by the man whose son got killed in hit and run, right will get off my soap box!! thanx Jeff

Ray Miller

Thu 11th Aug 2011 16:07

On the poetry side it has a nice rhthm and rhyme going. It'd perform well, as the saying goes. I'd go for
but don't you know from where they root. For the extra rhyme.
I'd ditch the 3rd verse and make the 5th into answers rather than questions.

As for the real world, to explain why someone behaves in certain ways is not to excuse that behaviour.An awful lot of people cannot not get their heads round this or wilfully ignore it.
Much of this week's behaviour is just opportunism and greed. But I think also there's an awareness in the land that things have gone wrong, and regardless of who might be to blame, the consequences are not being shared out equally. The present shenanigans distract us very nicely from that. Not that I'm a conspiracy theorist or anything!

Tommy Carroll

Thu 11th Aug 2011 16:02

Sometimes I cringe at the unguarded post; sometimes I wish a more tempered response to events had been observed and sometimes, as is the case here, a full on rant of unbridled anger is called for- I have read others posts and your responses Laura- I for one am in total agreement. Your analysis of 'cause and effect' is correct. Well done.
PS Cameron and Boris Johnson were responsible for wrecking a 15th century restaurant, and Borris also set fire to the toilet.

Cynthia Buell Thomas

Thu 11th Aug 2011 15:26

Laura and Isobel, what a terrific discussion. Laura, my point only was to caution against extreme statements which are seemingly self-evident, before digging more deeply into original and/or parallel causes and effects. That 9/11 murder was a preconceived act, waiting only for a catalyst, however indirect. We all read what we want to read into situations; and this weakness is a severe political pitfall.

Some of the suggested 'retaliatory' schemes are idiotic to the extreme, and are almost scarier than the destruction and pillaging.

*now off MY soapbox!

But look at you, standing up tall,like a Greek StatesWoman firing her ideas full force at the assembled crowd, in the finest manner of persuasive rhetoric. I am in awe.

Isobel

Thu 11th Aug 2011 13:00

I was being ironic with the 'caring' comment. I care for justice. I can't see that justice will ever be meted out to these thugs.

Clearly we all parent in different ways. It is possible to bring up children without physical punishment but much more time consuming and harder to keep at when you have a large number of children. I used a combination of smacking and verbal reasoning and it worked very well for me. I wholly agree with positive parenting. I praise my children often and the love I have given them far outweighs any punishment. In addition to birching, I would like to see the creation of youth clubs and activities for teenagers - boredom is part of the problem for a lot of them - on top of not having any social conscience or idea of citizenship.

Laura Taylor

Thu 11th Aug 2011 12:39

I am actually aghast that you equate birching with caring.

I am 100% against physical punishment. The reasoning that to teach someone not to misbehave by using violence against them is hypocritical at best - damaging, oppressive, humiliating and self-perpetuating at worst. I have raised my child without an ounce of it, it is absolutely not required. There are many other ways to teach and instil caring and responsible attitudes. Physical punishment is animalistic and base. We are human beings with the ability to use language and reasoning. We should never have to stoop so low.

We are shaped by much more than our parents. But they do set the scene, and they do have a huge effect on our future lives.

Isobel

Thu 11th Aug 2011 12:05

I'm actually being very caring by calling for public birching. I recognise that cutting social security benefits wouldn't help these youths - they wouldn't be able to afford their blackberries for one...

I also understand that banging them up in prisons isn't going to help them either. Apparently it increases their potential for criminal activity because they forge more criminal contacts.

I've always believed in physcial punishment. My parents used it on me and I used it on mine. Measured and never done in too much haste - and there is never any need for it beyond the age of 4 or 5 cos they respect discipline and authority by then. Kids need to know when they've done wrong and they need an instant reminder of it. That is where we have gone wrong - this mamby pamby softness in our society. The fault always has to lie elsewhere - never at home.

Laura Taylor

Thu 11th Aug 2011 11:29

You know, there are now calls for the people who took part in this to have their benefits cut, and to be evicted from social housing. This is so incredibly short-sighted that I have scabs on my chin - my mouth has dropped open so much in bemused disbelief. Consequences, anyone?

The police continue to make mistakes. Recent phone hacking 'revelations' led to the 2 foremost commissioners resigning. I have an awful lot to say about this Isobel but this is not the place. The whole thing stinks.

Physical punishment will not lead to a peaceful society. Custodial sentences ARE actually already being doled out.

And I would never dream of stooping to personal insults - we are debating here, not scrapping.

Isobel

Thu 11th Aug 2011 11:08

Going back to the kids who will do time...

Sadly, I doubt very much that many will do anything. There aren't enough prison cells to hold them and they don't have the money to pay fines. It is all hot air just to placate the greater british public - who want justice.

Isobel

Thu 11th Aug 2011 11:04

I see the point you are making Laura. I would like to live in a society that was clean and honest from the top down or bottom up. I'm not sure such a Utopia will ever happen though - it doesn't seem to be human nature. The best we can hope for is a peaceful society in which individual human rights are respected. How we achieve that we will never agree over :-)

I do take some comfort from the fact that cheating politicians have been named and shamed - many forced to resign. The police have made mistakes but are now so scared of making them it almost ties one hand behind their back. The fact that we deal with our transgressions in a public way (sometimes and eventually) probably doesn't help us in that it undermines our confidence in the system. I'm sure much worse goes on in other countries - things that never see the light of day. I do think we take for granted so many good things about this country of ours.

Laura Taylor

Thu 11th Aug 2011 10:08

It's not JUST the bankers Isobel. I am trying to show the bigger picture. The corruption which is endemic in our society now. Brought about by an overarching push towards greed, towards consumerism, to the church of the dollar. These people are above the law. The law is corrupt. Where do we go from here?

Isobel

Thu 11th Aug 2011 10:02

I'm not disagreeing with you that bad stuff goes on in government, banking - and there will always be the odd bad copper. Our country is no different to any other country in that respect though - in fact probably better than many. Individuals make mistakes - some times large numbers of individuals. We simply can't allow the civil unrest that has just happened to keep on repeating though and holding up bankers as a reason why we should 'understand' these yobs just doesn't cut it for me.

Laura Taylor

Thu 11th Aug 2011 09:52

Yeh - they have us by the nuts don't they? Exactly. So they get away with vast theft, the police get away with murder, the politicians have more homes than they know what to do with and STILL steal more, meanwhile they keep the courts open all night (unprecedented - oo, and spending your taxes whilst they're at it) to lock up a load of kids who are practising the exact same actions but on a much lower scale. How many shops have been shut due to the recession? Damn sight more than have been over the riots.

Isobel

Thu 11th Aug 2011 09:40

Bad parenting is a major contributor to the recent chaos, in my opinion of course :-)
In past generations I think there was more parental presence at home and certainly more discipline in all areas of society - school particularly.

I'd agree that bankers loot and get away with it. Unfortunately for us, our whole ecomomy depends on them - so there is just no getting rid of them. In fact I sometimes wonder if, as a country, we survive mostly on the revenue the City of London brings in. It's not like we manufacture or mine much, is it?

Laura Taylor

Thu 11th Aug 2011 09:31

Thanks folks for reading and taking time to comment.

Dave - do you have that book? Would like to read it.

Cynthia - do you believe that I am condoning what has happened? Your comment about the American seems to imply that. My apologies if I read this wrong. I don't, for the record. I am just attempting to put forward my view, based on the times I have lived through and seen with my own eyes, on the change in the working class community and the consequences of Tory ideology. There was a time when I realised that it was changing, HAD changed, and it actually made me ashamed that these people, who were working class like myself, were behaving in this way, were holding these (to me) offensive and greedy and consumerist values. The whole ethos changed from a cohesive community life, everyone pulling together and looking after each other, to one which rejected that in favour of a ruthless 'every man for himself'. Where we were plunged into deep poverty through govt policy. Jobs gone, affordable housing sold off etc. But I thought long and hard about it, and looked at the bigger picture. I could type out an epic here, but I won't (or have I already?!). I would welcome discussion with you though in another channel.

And yes - absolutely - our entire society is corrupt. All of the authoritative structures are now shown to be corrupt - ALL of them. The police, the govt, the media, the banks etc. And the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer...same old same old.

*steps down from soapbox* ;)

Francine

Wed 10th Aug 2011 23:54

This is very heartfelt. It is such a sad state of affairs what is going on - not only in the UK, but around the world... : (

Cynthia Buell Thomas

Wed 10th Aug 2011 17:19

Some very good points, Laura, and, IMO, some points that need further thought following the immediacy of the recent shock waves. Parts of this poem are too like the enraged American who, on the day of the 9/11 bombing, killed a Sikh gentleman because he wore a turban. But, while you're ranting, take up the whole pervasive, permissive society; the 'rights of children' gone completely amuck; and the total lack of caring about consequences for actions in all structures of society.

Dave Bradley

Wed 10th Aug 2011 14:50

This isn't great poetry Laura but it's from the heart and I totally agree with it. People think that trying to understand why bad stuff is happening is approving of it. Not so. I've just read 'A Week in December' by Sebastian Faulks. Now there's a book to open up what investment bankers are capable of - their inhumanity and greed. But - as you say - they get away with it.

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