John Coopey

SHOULD WE STAY OR SHOULD WE GO?

by John Coopey

Tuesday 3rd May 2016 2:45 pm

I’ve watched the programmes on TV but it just smokraffles me;

Some say it’s time to turn about; some say we’re better In than Out

I’m in a flat spin I don’t know – Should we Stay or should we Go?

The Stayers warn us they’re afraid a vote to Leave will damage trade

The weight of this can’t be denied now Dave and Jezza’s on one side

And Barak too adds in his clout; he says we’re better In than Out.

“We should be free to make our laws, a sovereign state within these shores”

Says IDS and that Farage, while Boris schemes for when in charge;

“Its interference is a sin”; they say we’re better Out than In.

Should we Leave or should we Stay now? It’s one straight choice, there’s no halfway, now

I voted “In” once before; this time around I’m not so sure;

My thoughts get elbowed to and fro; should we Stay or should we Go?

◄ KENNY

OXFORD BLUE ►

Comments

John Coopey

Sat 7th May 2016 20:04

As always, MC, your opinion disagrees with my own but you express it cogently and with courtesy.
I will supersede this post with another shortly which should encourage the ending of comments.

M.C. Newberry

Sat 7th May 2016 16:46

The EC decision to choose "harmonisation" instead of a
proper free trade arrangement led to massive regulation,
legislation, unrestricted immigration and resultant costs.
As part of this Union (referring to 2014 figures) we run
a trade deficit with the EU at £61.5 billion - and a
surplus with the rest of the world. The UK pays towards
EU costs the sum of £55 million per day to keep its
red tape empire on the road, including the commitment
to "progressive realisation of economic and monetary union".
Ergo, to remain within its grip sees the Euro waiting, as
well as irresistible policies that might be forced upon
us in the future about which we would have no choice
but to accept, no matter how damaging to this small
country, its products and its services. In the meantime,
the vast world beyond the EU looks on and waits.
Do we take a chance on freedom on our own terms
or let ourselves become hostages to the plans of
an entity with little love for us or our country?
The date in June is indeed a date with destiny.
Enough from me! It's been a most interesting
exchange of views on this post...thanks.

John Coopey

Sat 7th May 2016 15:37

Indeed, Lancs. But there is no question that there is a usage beyond its origin, a la "Putting the Great back into Britain". Check out the Facebook page entitled this. Check out the government's plan to market Great Britain abroad as a tourist destination.

John Coopey

Fri 6th May 2016 19:19

45.1% of the UK's trade is with the EU, MC. This is an all-time low figure. What will it be if we leave? Will we get the same trading arrangement as Norway? Who knows? I don't. But I do know that we send 45.1% of our trade there now.

M.C. Newberry

Fri 6th May 2016 17:44

It's not a question of seeking a return to the "Great"
Britain as in days of Empire (the original appellation was
geographical), it is the desire to return the governance
of the country to its elected Parliamentarians who can
be changed at elections. We produce many of the great
minds, inventions and creative enterprises and there is
no reason why the world should not continue to seek
them out once we regain control of our own trade.
Billions of our money is invested in lands everywhere
and there is hardly likely to be a rush for these to disenfranchise themselves of that situation and the two-way benefits its represents around the globe.
Why have we become so timorous and easily duped?
Is it REALLY acceptable to be told what to do at every
turn? (Quote: "Community law is required to take
precedence over domestic law i.e. if a Community law
conflicts with a statute, it is the statute which has to
give way..."). How far removed is this sort of thing
from a trading market we originally elected to join?
Hands up those who REALLY KNOW WHAT IS PLANNED
within the EU once its one-way trap snaps shut and
there is no going back or any chance to change
whatever effects its decisions have for us. What value Shakespeare's famous lines then?

John Coopey

Fri 6th May 2016 11:58

Thanks, Lynn. I think the nub of the Out campaign harks back to our past and is that the EU has held us back; without it Great Britain can be Great again.
We can't.

Lynn Dye

Fri 6th May 2016 10:55

Good one, John!

I couldn't agree more with your last comment that we know what IN looks like, but not what OUT looks like.

To MC though, I would just like to add that if there is an out vote, I hope he gets proved right! :-)

John Coopey

Thu 5th May 2016 18:30

When you say that trade is less of a problem than it's likely effects, the problem for me, MC, is that we don't know those effects. I know what I'll get if we stay, I don't know what I'll get (and nor does anybody else) if we leave.

M.C. Newberry

Thu 5th May 2016 17:41

The aspect of "trade" seems a worry beyond its likely
effects. In the EU (just 1 of 28) we're subject to the
EU's controls. Outside the EU we could resume our seat
on the World Trade Organisation. The world awaits.
Ken - being a sad anti-social with conifers is surely
better than being a con artist set on acquiring the
possessions of a neighbour to gain benefit and control of all they have worked for and achieved over so many years.

John Coopey

Wed 4th May 2016 21:08

Thanks for your comments, Ken.
What is refreshing is that the whole debate does not divide along the usual partisan lines.
Ironic that the song is one by The Clash.

ken eaton-dykes

Wed 4th May 2016 20:37

Good stuff JC. I'm all for staying in if only for the political stability it brought.

Those for Brexit are to me like those sad antisocial neighbours who surround their properties with giant conifers.

John Coopey

Wed 4th May 2016 19:58

So can we say with certainty, MC, what the trade arrangement with Europe would be if we left?

M.C. Newberry

Wed 4th May 2016 18:22

JC - Happy to discuss.
My idea of the future does not find itself at ease with
your own. We have a past to compare it with & I fear
"the hidden axe" when it comes to what is likely to occur
if any "Remain" vote wins and there's no going back about
anything that is precious to us.

John Coopey

Tue 3rd May 2016 19:58

My own thoughts, MC, are that there is no future in going back.
The one certainty in all the arguments on both sides is that I know what Stay looks like. I haven't a clue (and neither does anyone else) what Leave looks like.

M.C. Newberry

Tue 3rd May 2016 17:59

Time to smooth out the kinks? :-)
At the time of the decision over joining the "European
Community" in 1975, the Treasurer of the "Yes" campaign
is reported to have said:
"The whole thrust of our campaign was to depict the
anti-Marketeers as unreliable people - dangerous people
who would lead you down the wrong path. It wasn't
so much that it was sensible to stay in, but that
anybody who proposed that we came out was off their rocker or virtually a Marxist".
Fast-forward to the present administration and Cameron's description of today's "antis" as loonies and
fruitcakes. Does that approach seem familiar?
Now - define the difference between "free trade" and
"harmonisation" (EC choice) - in meaning and cost.
Finally, outside the EU, a place with the World Trade
Organisation presents itself; inside the EU, it does not.
As for the process employed to get us this far:
I remember the deceit, then the denial, then the
dissembling, then finally the decision - as originally
planned! This is NOT OUR WAY and now we can
act - with far more knowledge and awareness than
we had previously - to get our bearings and our
future back.

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