WHAT WOULD CONVERT A BREXITER?

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I watched an old post on FaceBook of James O’Brien of LBC Radio today.  He was arguing as a prelude to his phone-in that, in the light of what has happened since, that if there was another referendum, the outcome would be overwhelmingly to stay.  Brexiters would take the view “I never knew this would happen”.

That:

  • The £ would slump so alarmingly
  • That imports to industry would therefore be more expensive
  • And so too therefore, finished manufactured goods
  • That interest rates would be cut
  • Thereby exacerbating pension fund deficits
  • That hate crimes would rise by 40% etc

O’Brien might think that; I cannot agree less.

I have not met a single Brexiter who acknowledges the damage done and that they were wrong. Not one. Every one takes a post-rationalist view; in other words, they’ve dropped their barrow and invent new theories to explain the facts that have subsequently emerged – the NHS bus, the obstacle of the Law, the devaluation of the £ against the euro and $.  “The £ is back at a level it ought to be”, one said to me.  “WHAT?”.  The value of the pound is a function of investor confidence in it.

But here is the real rub.  In order to stand any chance of overturning any new referendum vote we Remainers have to acknowledge and address the issue facing a Brexit voter.  Which is this:

You can be wrong about who will win the FA Cup.  You can be wrong about the capital of Chile or the height of the Angel Falls.  But to be “wrong” about Brexit is to admit you are gullible.

And no-one will.

◄ 1962

IN THE GROTTO ►

Comments

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M.C. Newberry

Mon 5th Dec 2016 17:13

"Optimism" in many WOL posts? I must be seeing the wrong
WOL!
My sister and her hubby say "Up the Arsenal!" - and that
IS optimism.
:->

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John Coopey

Mon 5th Dec 2016 10:20

You're so right, Graham. I shall draw a veil over this blog. I am thinking of trying to write in a more humorous and less weighty style - I know, hard to imagine given my usual curmudgeonly style. But I'll give it a go.
5-0 very pleasing. Nothing game midweek (whoever says that about the Champions League) and on to The Scum at the weekend. COYS!

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Graham Sherwood

Mon 5th Dec 2016 09:25

If there's one thing that brings down the optimism shown in many of the works on WOL it's politics. Come on!

5-0 5-0 5-0.......5-0 5-0 5-00000000!!!!

There that should cheer you up JC

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John Coopey

Sun 4th Dec 2016 21:24

I would have thought there is nothing in principle, MC, which stops the House from voting to serve or not serve Article 50 or to leave the decision where the democratic will currently lies ie with the people's referendum. As a supporter of national sovereignty I assume you are happy that the British Parliament has this power?

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M.C. Newberry

Sun 4th Dec 2016 19:31

JC - I live in hope but with reservations about the respect that latter-day politicians have for the
concept of sovereignty and the democratically stated will of the British people about leaving the EU.
If they were keen on respecting both, what is to
stop them getting together to pass a brief Act of
Parliament - "This House proposes and agrees
to a Bill that renders Article 50 (with treaty reference)
null and void and forthwith returns sovereignty
in all matters appertaining to the governance of the United Kingdom for the sole decision of this House"?
Bear in mind that Article 50 is from a "treaty" which, I
suggest, can be overturned by Parliament via an appropriate Bill brought and agreed by its members.
But, on record of past conduct, who can imagine that?
Hence, the suspicion that we've entered "Alice
Through The Looking Glass" territory for a clearly
unexpected result to be "debated".
I will watch with interest what happens.
Cheers.

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John Coopey

Sun 4th Dec 2016 08:55

Couldn't have put it better myself, Lancs. (I think).
If sovereignty is key for you, MC, you must be satisfied that British courts, without interference from the EU, have determined that the issue cannot be decided until it goes before Parliament?

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M.C. Newberry

Sat 3rd Dec 2016 18:31

Let us place the blame for what has transpired firmly
among those in Parliament, then and now, who aided and abetted this state of affairs by their conduct.
Back in the 1950s, we had Supermac at odds with Lord
Attlee about the original concept and whether we were
abandoning our allies in previous darkest peril. There
were frequent heated exchanges between them.
Then we had Ted Heath who, told by minister Geoffrey
Rippon that the people would never agree to what lay
ahead, decided they didn't need to know and pushed on regardless.
The whole thing should be seen as a huge political confidence trick. They took the confidence of the people and tricked them.
The MPs who took advantage of their position to assume
a national mandate they never had have much to answer
for with their actions in handing their authority to foreign
influence and control without that mandate. I wonder
if they murmur words like "but second, of course, to my
support for Brussels" after taking the oath of allegiance
to the Queen when taking their seat. Sarah Olney MP is one newer example that comes to mind. The question
about the incumbents deciding on the public vote to
depart from the EU as a matter of sovereignty should
be seen as part of the greater picture, ergo, their
readiness to transfer that sovereignty elsewhere. Who
guards the guards?
My analogy about birth and pain is merely to recall
that they are symbiotic. In human terms we have
dirty diapers and domestic disruption but accept them as
part of a necessary procedure towards establishing the future.
I'm the eternal optimist about this United Kingdom and the ability of its people to move on and succeed in a rapidly changing world.

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John Coopey

Sat 3rd Dec 2016 08:39

I wish I had your optimism about the penny dropping, Harry.
In fact I suspect it will be irrelevant as there will be no 2nd referendum. Nor should there be. We can't keep revisiting democratic decisions every time we don't like them.
I think the resolution will come from the Law. Already it has decided that nothing can be enacted without it going to Parliament. You can't beat good old British law, delivered in British courts by British judges. Deliciously ironic, eh?

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Harry O'Neill

Sat 3rd Dec 2016 00:32

John,
The realization will take a bit more time yet...but the penny will drop eventually.

I`m surprised to hear M.C. talking about noe gain without pain, and suffering to achieve great things (I wish there had been more of that from the Brexiteers before the election - it`s a bit more honest)...The bit about enslaving is rich, when you consider that we enslaved a quarter of the world into an empire.

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John Coopey

Thu 1st Dec 2016 23:22

We are, indeed, MC, Poles apart.
I shall check them out, Colin.
There is a James O'Brien post in which he takes a call from a Brexiter whose main motivation, he claimed, was to reassert national sovereignty over our laws. When O'Brien asked him which EU laws he would repeal he couldn't name one. (I asked the same question to a friend who likewise couldn't). Eventually they both said "bananas".

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M.C. Newberry

Thu 1st Dec 2016 18:17

There is no worthwhile gain without pain - check any
physical endeavour in particular and any ambition in
general. Suffering is part of achieving great things.
As for gullible = that surely applies to those who have
allowed themselves to be gulled by the spin of deceit
and self-deception that has seen the idea of a trading
market evolve into a tightly controlled all-embracing
political entity led by those who would have enslaved us
in the recent past given half a chance and clearly hold
with Clauswitz's proposal that what can't be achieved
in war must be achieved in peace - and vice versa.
Check the main orchestrators of the EU: Germany and France!
You can remain with your beliefs; I'll leave with mine.
Bon Chance to you and Good Luck to me.

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