Be careful what you wish for
And take some time to think
It’s always wise; it gives you time
To step back from the brink.
Be careful what you wish for
Think through it while you can
You’ll find the consequences
Rarely go to plan.
Be careful what you wish for
My grandma used to say
The devil finds a thousand different
Ways to make you pay.
Be careful what you wish for
You should have thought this through
This is what you voted for
In leaving the EU.
I realise, MC, that it is a forlorn hope trying to convince a Brexiter on the basis of facts, but this is telling. A caller who has clearly negotiated trade deals on behalf of the British government and whose expertise is self-evident.
https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/expert-schools-james-obrien-on-brexit-facts/
If we are talking about pressing buttons, I'm thinking that
JC is back with Button B - looking to get the money back -
and fast! ?
We as a nation have set off into the unknown before. Can
we measure up again now? That's the question.
I’ve always had the knack of knowing what buttons to push, Graham.
Judging by the commentary JC, some of your best work yet!
“The pain” is set to last for 50 years according to Rees-Mogg.
I think we can deal with the "difficulties" and I'm optimistic about the eventual outcome. No gain without pain etc.
Onward and forward towards a waiting new world -
beyond the old with its historical and ongoing current
restrictions on our national entrepreneurial skills. ?
So are you happy with how it’s going, MC?
A vigorous and interesting exchange of views. However, I
am saddened at the lack of self-belief and confidence in
continuing where our forebears led the way - and the
inability to interpret the basic premise of the word
"freedom" fought for over many centuries in our past
by those who went before us. The idea that their sacrifice
should result in the occupants of Parliament handing over
their electoral role to rule by foreign committee controlling
our laws and how we live our lives would be anathema to their idea
of freedom. Certainly, immigration - or rather the lack of
CONTROL with its perceived threat to work opportunities
and a creeping sense of loss of national identity, already
diluted to accommodate the sense of welcome to those
who choose (and that's the operative word) to come here
- has been influential in the vote to leave the EU. The
actuality of anyone from across the Channel from whatever origins being able to add huge numbers to an
already strained social infrastructure certainly focussed
minds. No bad thing! To those who say - let's be run
by others we can't hold to account, I say "more fool
you" - and that's being generous.
To those who see this in purely financial terms, our
annual exports are reported as £550 billion per annum,
with only a very few instances of more than 50% going
to the EU with all its restrictions on UK trade as PART
of the "club". One of those is tobacco, with a certain
Kenneth Clarke MP - former deputy chairman of British American Tobacco (BAT), a very vociferous "Remainer".
Once again, I recall the warning of Thomas Jefferson:
"Any country willing to sacrifice its freedom for financial
advantage deserves to lose both".
As for the Irish border situation,
It's worth checking the speech by
DUP leader Nigel Dodds (whose
father was a customs officer) given
to the Bruges Group recently about the Irish border question and how
it should not be a problem in reality.
Meanwhile - on with the motley, as the saying goes about a jester's
apparel.
I don’t think I would be if I’d voted Leave, Brian.
The government pursuing a trade deal in return for freedom of movement.
Commitments given to EU nationals allowing them to stay.
The lies about funding for the NHS
The prospect of the country being set back 50 years according to Rees-Mogg
The bolo punch no-one saw coming of the Irish border.
Outstanding financial commitments to the EU.
It must all look a bit like Remain Lite to you.
I bet it’s not what you thought it would be.
“Be Careful What You Wish For”
<Deleted User> (18980)
Thu 23rd Aug 2018 00:00
Not entirely John, but we are not masters of our own destiny...which is where I came in.
So are you happy at how it's unfolding, Brian?
<Deleted User> (18980)
Wed 22nd Aug 2018 23:26
John - we're coming at it from different angles. You are assuming, even hoping, it will be disastrous. I am expecting an initial downturn followed by success. I am also expecting that British people, regardless of how they voted, are essentially proud of this country - rightly so - and will work to make independence a success.
We're leaving John.
So are you happy with how it's unfolding, Brian?
<Deleted User> (18980)
Wed 22nd Aug 2018 21:12
Hi Ferris...at the risk of this becoming a private conversation between the two of us...
I have three children...my son, a leaver, was first in the queue at the polling station; my two daughters, both remainers, couldn't be bothered to vote and have whinged about the result ever since. We, the leavers, won that referendum by default and we are scared stiff of another vote because my daughters and others will mobilise themselves.
<Deleted User> (18980)
Wed 22nd Aug 2018 21:02
Question Ferris...did you vote?
<Deleted User> (18980)
Wed 22nd Aug 2018 20:56
Non-whites Ferris? From the EU?
<Deleted User> (18980)
Wed 22nd Aug 2018 20:54
What racist comment Ferris?
<Deleted User> (18980)
Wed 22nd Aug 2018 19:49
Let's be brutally honest...immigration was the really big issue. Whole towns or parts of towns are no longer recognisable from what they were. Although EU citizens can migrate to any other EU country they tend to come to the UK due to the language, freedom, employment, culture, and dare I say it...housing and social benefits.
Economic factors didn't really come into it with people who often had little to lose from a downturn.
If only those left wingers and students could have been arsed to go down to the polling station...
The point I was making,MC, is that is was total foolishness to vote for an outcome no-one knew. Well, what we have now is the reality of outcome from Brexit - a complete dog’s dinner. I assume you don’t disagree on that. Even the champion of Brexit, Jacob Rees-Mogg, has said that we may not see its benefits for 50 years. Let me translate that; Rees-Mogg is saying Brexit will set us back 50 years.
So, I ask you, “Would a wise man vote for that?”. The answer he would give is “I didn’t know that would be the outcome”. My point entirely.
JC - one man's fool is another's wise man. Of all the
established trading nations, this small entity has the
historical reputation of risking and succeeding where others
tried and failed. Why should that not be a part of our
national character still? I keep that old adage in mind:
"You have to speculate to accumulate" and have confidence
in our ability to remind Europe that it is not "the world"
and to renew our former reputation in trade but free of
its imposed restrictions. We were merchant venturers -
and can be again IF we have confidence in ourselves.
That much I DO believe.
Thanks Brian and Ferris.
Remainers, including myself, completely misunderstood the case for leaving. This is it.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xfQwHb1pWPE
Sticking two fingers up at the foreigners.
<Deleted User> (18980)
Tue 21st Aug 2018 23:36
The fool on the hill
sees the sun going down
on the EU
And the eyes in his head
sees the world spinning round
ripe for trade deals
Thanks Hugh and MC.
The remarkable thing is that Leavers must have known what a dog’s dinner this would turn out to be. Why else would they vote for something and not know the consequences. Surely only fools would do such a thing.
I enjoy the theme and its reference to a certain situation.
Of course, we must keep sending that money to the EU &
its grateful hands-on (sorry, hands out) converts to the club
until we actually leave. No wonder the whole shebang is
being strung out like a line of banknotes on a laundry line
with all the talk about money - and free movement by those
who have the wherewithal to all the instant contacts that
science has provided in my lifetime and are spared the need to actually go anywhere unless invited and approved
on a personal basis - e.g. study and work purposes.
Now - about "fortuitous"...
A great political poetic poem .Read it a few times.
It's all going so well, Brian.
I think negotiations have just got underway, again, Douglas. So my timing was entirely fortuituituitous.
Very clever and very timely!
<Deleted User> (18980)
Tue 21st Aug 2018 20:32
Aaaaaarrrgghhhh!!!!!!! Project Fear comes to WOL.
If you wish to post a comment you must login.
This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse, you are agreeing to our use of cookies.
M.C. Newberry
Sat 25th Aug 2018 14:27
JC - I've never argued that there will be no difficulties. My
point is do we have the courage to endure them while we achieve the essential issue of self-control and wider
horizons in trade? As for "experts"...I find their uses
are invariably compatible with the argument(s) being put forward. Time will be the deciding factor...time and the
will to see things through now that we are set on that
particular path.
Cheers.