I would not seek to separate Muslims from their Koran;
Religious belief should not be a cause for blame
But I stand shoulder to shoulder with any free-thinking man
Against those who maim and murder in its name.
.........................................................................................
yeh, I was going to cite Aristotle and Plato, though we're not really on nodding terms, but sifting through this I think Harry makes the point best, don't dismiss anyone as outdated for visiting hell on everyone else: and the psychologist might say god is near, that is, "in the last analysis we discover only ourselves."
As a western European, thus somewhat Christian I found Ian's alternative first line adjusted the tone to the spirit I wanted from it. There is an unreliable bible rhyme there somewhere MC: what next?
kind rgards all
Dom.
Aristotle Aristotle
was a bugger for the bottle,
Hobbs was fond of his dram,
and old Descartes was a drunken old fart,
I drink therefore I am.
Monty Python.
Lads...lads!...didn`t you ever see `The Life of Brian` ?...The Christian `Holy teachings` were written in the glory days of the Roman Empire...Remember? Sanitation, roads, bridges, acqueducts, Baths, dome construction, etc;...not to mention such trifles as philosophy, drama, architecture, law, Military discipline... a working world order. Oh, and I almost forgot Hippocrates and medicine. (my voice is getting tired).
Within a relatively short time, (after the persecution) the
implications of those holy teachings were being debated and scrutinised by some of the best philosophic brains in the empire under the chairmanship of the Emperor.
Some hundreds of years later, the priceless early translations of Aristotle and co (which had by then vanished from the West) were recovered via the efforts of the Moslem Philosophers in Alexandria and Spain who had been studying them. (all of this is in the -uncontested- history books).
We should also not forget that this `scientific` age has brought with it two enormously fatal world wars (And in the last one - which we tend to overlook - two atom bombs were actually dropped on densely populated cities).
But to get back (wearily) to the actual poem (which, on its own is quite reasonable)
As the Christian doctrine of the Fall tries to indicate: Mankind will maim and murder in the name of almost anything.
When The murdering and maiming of others (and oneself) is done in the name of a scripture, then the recognised present-day authorities of that scripture should come out and make themselves clear about such an interpretation of it...I don`t hear of that being done.
We`ll never get anywhere by imagining that the highly scientifically educated terrorists are ignorant savages sitting around campfires.
Ian -
"I would not seek to separate Christians from their Bible
Or the deeds for which it's liable!"
I need only consider the "Christian Militias" of backward
lands to go along with your reply.
It is a matter for incredulity that in this 21st century
(when you'll probably find a television in a mud hut!)
we still have sections of humanity that fall back on the
products of two thousand years ago and make selective
choices to suit their depredations.
"Love thy neighbour as thyself" is thin on their ground!
I would not seek to separate Christians from their Bibles;
Religious belief should not be a cause for blame
But I stand shoulder to shoulder with any free-thinking man
Against those who maim and murder in its name.
just saying *wink*
The "holy teachings" upon which the prominent religions
base their beliefs were created when the world and
humanity were beset by fear and ignorance; when those
who could read and write were the religious orders and
even the nobility had to rely on them in that respect.
Ancient mankind around their campfires needed the
prospect of something better beyond their senses.
Now, the world - changed by science, its knowledge
widened and enlightened with the years, should contain
humanity that has kept up with and adapted to these
changes, able to select and match the ideas of two thousand years ago with what has accumulated in the
meantime. It is, of course, nonsense to take the stance
that this can't happen. It IS nonsense to take the view
that it SHOULDN'T happen. Adaptability - even in seeing
old writing with new eyes - is hardly a sin but rather a
blueprint for erudition and evolution. Religion comes
within its scope without its "positive values" being lost.
The sin is to go backwards - not forwards - and that is
where the absence of free-thinking is to be deplored
in a world that moved to reaching the heavens and not
just praying to them.
or,
I would not care to separate musselman from Christian;
?
I gather the saintly way is pretty much a universal: like bigotry and dogma. I don't think we will ever be spared the fanatics, but what do we with them? Forgiveness... that's hard!
Succinct and true, MC.
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M.C. Newberry
Thu 7th Apr 2016 17:26
Plenty worth reading following my modest four lines.
Thanks for all the comments/opinions. Informative and
informed stuff!
Dominic - I am in good company, needing only to cite
the Gershwins' song "It Ain't Necessarily So" from "Porgy
and Bess" - sung by the character Sporting Life (played
in the film version by the inimitable Sammy Davis Jr.).
"The things that you're li'ble
To read in the Bible,
It ain't necessarily so".
I was just more punctilious in the spelling as befits a literary
site. :-)