Colourless Green Ideas Sleep Furiously

It really does not abide well,

this lack of light, this insight,

festered by what you might do.

Talking in my dreams, I see you;

a kissing gate, we both pass through,

you outside me, me chasing you,

through us, life of her, I could not out do.

I do not know her yet, do you?

Oh you! Oh you! Oh! ...you.

I’ll love my hate until then tight,

but night - you undo, you undo;

itch my skin, a feisty muse,

adulterous heights and my mind askew!

And if I win that back, then I lose you.

◄ Generation T(shirt)

I cannot write. ►

Comments

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Ray Miller

Sat 15th Jan 2011 12:22

I offered my insight and made what I thought was constructive criticism. I did so because Marianne asked John Aikman what he thought was stereotypical about her writing.I like Marianne's writing. However, I don't feel as thrilled by it as I once did.As Cynthia implied, these sort of exchanges can be healthy.

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Rachel Bond

Sat 15th Jan 2011 03:59

i would like to say that marianne is a prolific writer and her work 'develops' in style as it is naturally inclined to. Personally some of her work I can relate to, some I find difficult and some i marvel in the sheer wonderment of the way she arranges words and images, much like an abstract artist as she says herself alluding to Dali.(and yes a big fuck off to his critics from him i think)
I think theres a beauty in finding an obscure allusion and even if it out of our personal semantic range then it is compelling.
at a basic level if you dont like it, just leave it...there are far less considered pieces on this site and the authors of such are oblivious posting 5 poems a day (at an extreme) of sometimes interesting but mainly rubbish work(IMHO)..their work is never challenged.
I dont always like marianne's poetry but as she says..so what? i dont expect anyone to like mine and am usually stunned if they do and then resentful if i get less than 10 comments (joke)
Some of marianes phrasings resound in my mind, as if from her own unique language, I dont know what they mean but i love them like new vocabulary...

i think constructive criticism is helpful if it grapples with the language and offers insight .

keep writing your poems Marianne, you are inspiring to a lot of people, some of whom may not comment.

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Cynthia Buell Thomas

Fri 14th Jan 2011 19:00

Great to meet you at last, Marianne. This is the best interchange, ever. I didn't think anyone would ever prod an answer from you re: your poetry. I am so glad to have seen this interchange of ideas. I do think that deliberate obscurity, identifiable only to the author, can be very off-putting as a steady diet. I love your work, you know that. Thanks for your input here.

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John Aikman

Fri 14th Jan 2011 12:45

Didn't mean to upset you, I was just trying to encourage you. Ray hit the nail on the head really, and you did too. Yes, I am a bit of a lazy reader and I tire quickly when a poem is too much like hard work to understand. Some poets can still entrance me with crackling language, even when I haven't got a clue what they are on about. Sometimes I am just left with a vague impressionist glow, and have been entertained...but I am none the wiser.

You do have several instances of crackling phrases and neat wordsmithery littered throughout your work, but I have yet to feel I have 'understood' many of the poems. I can't be arsed to wade through the wilfully obscure, which, I know is my loss, but hey, there's only so many hours in a day.

I just thought you might experiment a bit with a change of voice and maybe borrow from Thoreau's maxim and 'simplify, simplify, simplify' even if it's just for duffers like me and ray to appreciate.

Sorry.

:-)

Jx

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Marianne Louise Daniels

Fri 14th Jan 2011 11:56

I never presumed everybody to take the same from the phrase "Colourless Green Ideas Sleep Furiously" - it doesnt mean anything as a statement we can all share! so...thats why I played around with it abit, and I didnt think this poem was cryptic in its content. Maybe I was hasty - I didnt mean people should put in the same amount of time I did writing, and i appreciate many poems just on a feeling they create in me alone, but sometimes I find the "I just don't get it comment" a little tiring then - why should you have to get it?
I asked what he meant by stereotypical writing.
I don't want to rally you on a personal level and sorry if it is coming across that way.

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Ray Miller

Fri 14th Jan 2011 11:30

Marianne. Nobody is going to put in as much work reading a poem as you've put in to write it.I don't doubt that every word means something to you and I think you arrange those words in an interesting, novel fashion.I think you write well, as I said. But, you know, I had to smile at your response "sorry, John, I don't know what you mean." And also at your explanation of Colourless Green Ideas Sleep Furiously. For I wonder how many people share your understanding or intent.A poem can be appreciated for reasons other than meaning, of course, but you know, every little helps.This is just my opinion and there's absolutely no reason why you should take any notice of it. Best Wishes, Ray

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Marianne Louise Daniels

Fri 14th Jan 2011 10:07

with all due respect John, I think your comment is abit lazy. I don't expect everyone to like what I do but I don't understand what getting out of my groove and writing something challenging would actually entail. What is my groove according to you? and challenging? What do you suggest? Maybe my feathers are being ruffled here but I challenge myself alot with ideas and themes and language, I take on characters because I am fascinated by the different psyches. I was listening to an interview with Henry Miller the other day, he was talking about the way people write - some people write objectively but... they are still there - the idiosyncracies can not be clothed completely no matter what idea someone is trying on. He talked alot about the idea of the artist and writer either being possessed or obsessed (which i think is just our psychic aparatus so to speak, amplified) to really get to make some magic, thinking about Dali and Edgar Allen Poe. And if somebody told them to get out of their groove, probably would have replied with "fuck off!" (I am not being rude, maybe teasing a little here.) ha! I never comment on my work but I fear a can has been opened and my serpents are slivering everywhere, must tidy them up. By the by, the Henry Miller interview is a cracker if you want me to send it to you, on youtube but an hour long so split up into sections. He ends alot of his sentences in it with "Don't you know?" which is kind of amusing after a while.

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Marianne Louise Daniels

Fri 14th Jan 2011 00:52

in my haste i have slipped up in my typing but i hope you understand me. thankyou.

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Marianne Louise Daniels

Fri 14th Jan 2011 00:50

john, i am fully aware of where that phrase has come from and why Chomski used it as an example. I was experimenting here with the idea of "word salads" and using poetic liscence to maybe create something that makes sense out of something that appears nonsensical. the character that i therefore created was that of a paranoid person, confused in the knowledge of their feelings being real but the source maybe not being so... so "green" became jealousy, in the eyes of a lover, the "idea that sleeps furiously", the torment that this creates - taking over your waking thoughts and your dreams - sleep became a furious activity for this idea to spiral out of control and 'colourless' was referring to the paranoia - it is without fact. Ray, if you do not get it, you do not get it, but i sometimes tire of this being tagged to me - i do not pick words at random or use a cut up method, every word means something to me and is symbolic to the overall philosophy of the poem. they stem from feelings, sure, which can be hard to identify with but if you find it hardwork then mayybe because you are not putting in the hardwork reading it that i have whilst writing it. That sounds incredibly pompous but screw it! Sorry if this seems defensive, i hardly ever comment back on my own work but feel quite strongly about this.

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John Aikman

Fri 14th Jan 2011 00:35

"Colorless green ideas sleep furiously" is a sentence composed by Noam Chomsky in 1957 as an example of a sentence with correct grammar (logical form) but semantics that are nonsensical. The sentence therefore has no understandable meaning. An example of a category mistake, it was used to show inadequacy of the then-popular probabilistic models of grammar, and the need for more structured models.' (wiki)

Just my observation. The above was coined the year I was born. Nothing personal. Just think you are stuck in a bit of a 'samey' groove and could burst out and write something, well, a bit more challenging.

I think you are fab...but, stuck.

:-)

Jx

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Ray Miller

Fri 14th Jan 2011 00:17

I enjoyed this. I thought it were quite Shakespearean in its way and as close as I'll come to "getting" your poems.Your writing is very distinctive...and hard to follow. When I first came across it I thought this is imaginative , innovative, interesting..... and hard to follow.After a while the "hard to follow" began to outweigh other considerations and I found your work irritating. Maybe John feels that too.I wouldn't be saying this if I didn't think you were a good writer - and weren't rather drunk.

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Marianne Louise Daniels

Thu 13th Jan 2011 22:49

ha, sorry john, I don't know what you mean. What is stereotypical of my writing then?

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John Aikman

Thu 13th Jan 2011 20:44

Cool, taking your title from an archetype.

Still think you'd have more of a challenge writing something less stereotypical.

Jump out of your groove and write furiously greenly.

:-)

jx

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Laura Taylor

Thu 13th Jan 2011 15:55

'festered' - one of my favourite words, that :D

I really like this - love the 'oh you' changes of meaning, and 'I'll love my hate until then tight' line

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