I noticed today that Winston was welcoming WOLs 900th member. All I can say is "Wow!" but . . . where do they all go? Around 70 different poets posted last month which was more than I thought it would be. Is that a good statistic? Maybe it is.
Meanwhile, how long will it be before everyone in the whole country becomes a member of WOL?

It's the same person who keeps joining up. Nah, not really. People come and go, but they rarely really go, just fade away for a bit then wander back. It was a record for May for unique individuals using the site, over 10,000 of them; and the third highest number in the site's six-year history. And yet at the moment those individuals are not visiting as often. So, more people visiting less frequently.
We are also at record levels of entries on the gig guide, with more streaming in, showing that the gig guide is the main attraction of the site for most people.
I don't think I want most of the country to be members of WOL, just the ones who are interested in poetry and writing and related stuff, and who want to help others to enjoy what we enjoy from it. Which might or might not be most of the country. Lost the thread now.

Ann asks - “All I can say is "Wow!" but . . . where do they all go?”

I’ve thought about this too…
i would imagine that some previous contributors disappear up their own ass. While others become significantly disillusioned with both poetry and their lives in general that they turn to social network sites instead - or once the initial cathartic fuel has been burned into plumes of toxic smoke there is little else to contribute in a poetically constructive sense? Others, it would appear, leave the site after they find more suitable or alternative ways in which to spread their love and light. Some leave because they’ve sustained a fat bloody nose in what was once a relatively safe jousting environment while others it seems are offended to such a degree that they self-combust.

I don’t believe for one minute that ex-contributors don’t still call in from time to time, more often than not unnoticed, in a voyeuristic sense, to check on the overall ‘feel’ of just where WOL is in the great chain of poetry being? What’s the current crux of ‘heated’ discussion? Who’s ‘discussing’ with who?
What I find strange, although this is a huge generalisation, is those who once appeared to contribute THE most or make significant inputs into the site are no longer with us and actively contributing. From a personal point of view I often enjoyed the comments of John (Aikman)? Anthony Emmerson and more recently Steve Black. There are other quirks too, but by and large it seems that those who were once the most vociferous and active realise that some things are futile and not worth falling out over. (others are just moody twats). Internet discussion sites of any description being one of them.

Anyway, I’ve been on WOL since the dark ages and in that time I’m pleased to say that I’ve only ever left three times in fits of pique. Upset nobody – unless you count those 38 individual occasions when… and actually thought about making a payment via paypal on two separate occasions to swell WOL’s coffers.
Where do they all go?
Dunno??
But as Hovis Presley would say
‘as good things go – they went’.

Maybe the WOL government can have a WOL members amnesty? Spice things up a bit...

I miss those 3 too. Not always politically correct - sometimes a little unguarded in comments - but interesting and great commenters - not just posters.

People go through phases, things get stale... Why anyone would turn to FB though, I've no idea. Great for posting photos (cos everyone surely wants to see your holiday snaps...) and great for publicising things (like when you cease to be on your todd - boom boom, thumping heart) - but apart from that a pile of drivel.

WOL seems to be the only thing that keeps pulling me back - even though I can go through spells of weariness too. I guess there are people who haven't left that make it still worth while.

I wish some of our new people would post a blog. That's the way to get to become part of the site - and commenting on other's poems too of course. I wonder why they don't? Are we all so scary? Poet's profiles are often missed I feel. And it's a shame when there's some great stuff on some of them.

Well, I would gladly take any advice about how to sort out these concerns, and be happy for any of you guys to leap in and become 'animateurs' of the blogs and discussions in some way. Answers on the back, front or edge of a postcard please... or here.
the buggers dont know what they are missing; or do they?

Referring to Steve's thoughts. In one way I feel he may be contradicting himself when he says there is no encouragement (when no comments appear about a poem), but then thinks we are happy to let mediocrity rule the roost. What if, say, I don't think much of a poem, but it has no comments - should I say something - and then, do I encourage with my comments (thus encouraging mediocrity) or be a meanie and criticise the poem? Re giving comments only to get them back - there have been people on here whose poems I have commented on several times but never hear anything from them and get the feeling that they feel I am beneath them and don't want my comments. By saying that, I don't mean that I expect any praise in return - just a word, I don't know. It's like they are saying "keep off". But I guess like lots of us on here - I am being paranoid!! Glad to know that you are around anyway Steve - you're a very good presence on here - whether you're on here or not - if you see what I mean!

I'm glad you haven't disappeared Steve - your input is always interesting, thought-provoking and of considered quality, whether it's in the blog or discussions.

I would like to comment more, but like Ann feel that there are some who only see the blogs as a mirror - ready to accept all the praise bestowed on them, but not contributing anything in return.

From experience I have learned that many contributors only want to hear how wonderful their offerings are, and get frightfully upset and quite vicious when anything constructive or less than laudatory is offered.

Time also prevents me contributing as much as I would wish to. I generally stick to commenting on pieces by those who I know I can trust to have a balanced approach to criticism, or stuff that I really think is outstanding - plus a bit of banter with online "friends."

I still believe (yes I'm banging on about it again!) that posters on the blog ought to be encouraged to leave at least one (and preferably three) comments for each piece they post. I know it would be impossible to make this masndatory, or to police this, but surely not too difficult to encourage this via a little notice above the box used to post on the blog?

It also might be useful to ask contributors to specify what kind of response they expect when posting.

Me? I'll take anything from a good slagging off to fulsome praise.

That's all folks!!!

Regards,

A.E.

I don't believe it would be at all impossible to impose a mandatory number of comments for each poem posted.Nor is it unreasonable to expect some kind of quid pro quo.It's standard practice on poetry forums.I appreciate that some people may feel unqualified to comment on other poems, but you soon get used to it - it's not that difficult.There are those too who just can't be bothered. But even if there's a reluctance to police compliance they can always be ignored.

Just a thought. Newcomers often find it hard to figure out how to put their poems up as the "make a blog entry" tab isn't always easy to find or clear what it means.

Perhaps they could automatically get a welcome message that makes it clear how to & that would encourage them to get blogging straight away.

I guess the comments that actually offer critique-type comments are quite few and far between. I only feel able to offer comments that reflect my own taste I suppose, and don't feel qualified to offer advice. But I am certainly glad to receive any that is offered. In my early days on here I might have taken offence, but not now. (I hope!)

im interested in poetry enough to still want to read these discussion threads where people spout a lot of opinion and argue with each other (myself included) but i havent read a blog in the past month that i thought good enough to comment on. i used to write allsorts of comments on anything i thought slightly interesting in the spirit of encouragement but i agree with ste its a false maxim
i am working on the ideas of this piece written by C.Bukowski, 'So You Want To Be a Writer.'

if it doesn't come bursting out of you in spite of everything,
don't do it.
unless it comes unasked out of your heart and your mind and your mouth and your gut,
don't do it.
if you have to sit for hours staring at your computer screen
or hunched over your typewriter
searching for words,
don't do it.
if you're doing it for money or fame,
don't do it.
if you're doing it because you want women in your bed,
don't do it.
if you have to sit there and rewrite it again and again,
don't do it.
if it's hard work just thinking about doing it,
don't do it.
if you're trying to write like somebody else,
forget about it.

if you have to wait for it to roar out of you,
then wait patiently.
if it never does roar out of you,
do something else.

if you first have to read it to your wife
or your girlfriend or your boyfriend
or your parents or to anybody at all,
you're not ready.

don't be like so many writers,
don't be like so many thousands of
people who call themselves writers,
don't be dull and boring and
pretentious, don't be consumed with self-love.

the libraries of the world have
yawned themselves to sleep
over your kind.
don't add to that.
don't do it.


unless it comes out of
your soul like a rocket,
unless being still would
drive you to madness or
suicide or murder,
don't do it.

unless the sun inside you is
burning your gut,
don't do it.

when it is truly time,
and if you have been chosen,
it will do it by
itself and it will keep on doing it
until you die or it dies in you.

there is no other way.

and there never was...

not that any of you have noticed me gone, oh ste black, ste black come back...rachel bond who is that ;)

im not a poet.I stole rap lines Im a chancer,wrote dreams and lived cancer,gave nightmares like a bag of sweets, took em back.I am a dancer. time to shut up and listen"imapoetshesapoethesapoet"doesnt mean that much to me,poetry went out in 18 hundred 83,so make it all rhyme step out of time but step it up...cos it dull and its enough to say its boring.

Re comments - I think that the recent comments on Win's poem 1971 show that even though we may not have degrees in Eng Crit (if there is such a thing) several people have taken the trouble to read and think about the poem, Win has taken some suggestions on board and rewritten and created an even better poem. This shows how comments can be used to good effect - but you have to have an interesting poem to start with.

What you describe sounds a bit like a stream of consciousness Rachel. I love poetry like that. It really stands out - doesn't need perfecting - often sounds better with those little grammatical errors in there cos it's raw and from the soul.

Not many of us can write like that though. Should we deprive ourselves of poetry because of it? I would agree that there is a lot of so so stuff on here. That's because it is a site that caters for amateurs as well as aspiring professionals. So long as we all get enjoyment out of it, does it matter? No-one has to read, write or comment. You can choose to red circle poets you don't like, or make a special cluster of those who you do.

I suppose we will all go through phases of hating and loving the site according to our own personal moods - which swing by the day since we are all poets - or like to think of ourselvs as such :-)

Swimming in rivers - on my 'to do' list.

I don't think there should be too many tests, if any, for a poet to apply to themselves while writing. If one tried to use Bukowski's criteria for whether one should be writing one would be so busy being self-analytical, it would kill the thing. It's a different matter to be critical of the thing after it's down on paper

isobel - i agree. mood swings, especially those that go off the wall, shift the foundations of all art keeping it fluid and real.typically i do everything i like intensly for periods, then need a change to maintain a creative mementum. speaking as a wol writer who isnt currently writing for publish,i always felt that with poetry i was in the wrong school.that im somebody else who happens to like writing. Everytime someone referred to me as a poet i felt embarrased and totally phony Ive never identified with it as a persona although i have enjoyed all the writing and my involvement with wol. Im just cynical and if from any school it is for that of 'page' poetry. where i discovered it and where i want it to be. I continue to read blogs just avoid the drama at the moment. i find poetry performance 2 dimensional in conmparison with say theatre/dance/film.id love to see wol writers working in collaboration on bigger projects as with say the secret writers, Wigan.

ste black - thanks. you were the last bastion of what i consider good poetry. you left. i left. but we still write here. i came on for a nosy at your comments as i had missed your contributions.

john - im glad you liked the bukowski. sums it up for me.

dave- thats bukowski's point. if one engages with a self analytical process of any sort the mind filters anything real and kills the source. write if you HAVE to write, otherwise do something else. any writer can kill their own creativity even a good one.

Just logging in to say that I noticed Steve Black was gone, and I really miss you Steve, always enjoyed your stuff. I didn't say owt cos, well, it's your decision isn't it? Just as it is with Rachel's. I dearly hope you both put some more writing up on here as I do think you both have a talent for it and like I say, I enjoyed most of what you both wrote. And Rachel - you ARE a poet, it's in your blood, so you can pack that right in ;p Don't forget, it was listening to you and being deeply moved by your words that night that got me even thinking about writing poetry.

For myself, I don't ask much these days for constructive criticism, although I have in the past and I expect I will in the future. I hardly ever put something up unless I think it is finished. Maybe once or twice I have and then almost instantly decided on doing it differently, so have done. I like to play with all kinds of styles and ideas, I don't want to be tied into some kind of rule structure, although yes yes I appreciate it has to exist in order to deviate from it.

Having said that, when it is offered, I do always consider it, but more often than not I tend not to use it because it changes the essential nature and force of my 'message' (I know how wanky that sounds btw, before anyone feels the need to point it out!)

I never feel qualified to offer it much either. I generally just say if I've enjoyed something, and if I have, why. I feel that offering some kind of home-spun shonky 'advice' is taking the piss with someone else's style tbh.

"but i havent read a blog in the past month that i thought good enough to comment on. i used to write allsorts of comments on anything i thought slightly interesting in the spirit of encouragement but i agree with ste its a false maxim"

What a load of old shit

i have just read through the comments i have put on others work and it was really enjoyable to rediscover everybody's work and see how i have been affected, the things i have learned and be delighted again with the quality of peoples writing and be grateful again for these experiences.

Thanks for your faith in me laura...you ve kept me going, im glad you liked my last poem and ill be back with more. suppose i am a poet afterall and im glad that period of cynicism was a short lived one :)

yeehah.

Yeehaa backatcha, contrary mare that you are ;p (I only know this because I am too)

I'd love to hear that one again anyhow - next GnV? Be there or be oblong.

Contrary Mare is a fine title that i am happy with, ill be a nice chestnut mare with big brown eyes...

yeh ill be at gnv...avital is coming over and she a great musician/singer and a good laugh/lovely girl and you know i dont say that about many of these bitches...oops, have i offended already? neighhhh