The last word is 'polish'. I can't fix it.
I've thought about this question a lot. I sometimes think of these two attributes as synonymous. Any input?

Polis is the Greek word for town and just happens to be a town in the North West of Cyprus. Sorry couldn't resist that - I did google it, I must admit!

With an h, it becomes polish - something you apply to surfaces to strip them of dust and bring up a shine. I never get that far in my housework - perhaps I spend too much time doing it with my poetry instead.

I would say that poetry has to be polished in order to be elegant but not so the other way round.
I have written plenty of poems that aren't elegant but are polished - as best I can at any rate. I would never describe rants or haikus as elegant - though there are perhaps some exceptions to the rules that we normally see. Elegance goes hand in hand with subtlety and lightness of touch, I think.
Polish is the cleaning up of a poem once it is finished. The tightening up of all the loose ends to make it as smooth and as good as you can get, within the type of poem you are writing.

There are probably other examples of polished but 'unelegant' poetry that I could give you - it is just hard to pigeon hole stuff. I'm writing one about Allusion at the moment. I think that ideologically it is clever but it will never be elegant.

Just my random thoughts anyway...

Interesting and informative, Isobel. I believe that haiku in its best adherence, according to the original Japanese standards, is considered to be extremely elegant if also well-polished.

I thought someone might pick me up on haiku - I just expressed my own personal opinion of course. I tend to like poetry with more substance - though I see from your latest that haiku can be built up into more lengthy poetry.

I guess the crux of your question is what defines elegance - that may be personal to each one of us...

To me, polish sounds more superficial. A surface sheen that is there to impress. I guess you can polish a not-very-good poem. But for a poem to be elegant, that must be an inate thing, from within the structure of the poem. So I think an elegant poem would have to be a good poem. But I think a poem can be good (whatever that means!) without being elegant, and certainly without being polished. That's my first inelegant and unpolished opinion!

I agree with what you say about elegance - it is innate - the poem has to be good to be elegant and in my opinion, also polished.

We disagree on polish. I don't see it as superficial. Lack of polish indicates laziness to me. Why inflict something on an audience without going that extra mile? It can turn a so so poem into a really good one - whether it be elegant or not.

The Polis (I take it we're discussing the Scottish police?) tend to stray into inelegance, especially during strenuous activities when their uniforms suffer from bunching and/or pucker. High visibility cravats and cummerbunds would enhance the visual dampening caused by metres of drab, light-sapping serge. A better cut and a quality cashmere or bombazine would certainly go some way to correcting the present bodybag/gunnysack equation.

Putting it into layman's english then - you agree with Ann... polish can be guilty of tarting up a crap poem. You could say the same for many things. If the core of the poem isn't good, nothing (be it allusion, imagery, ideology or polish) will rescue it.

I still maintain that when used on a good poem - it turns it into a superb poem.

Polish?
I think we should send 'em all back!
Mr Angry of Tunbridge Wells.

John - my next door neighbour is a Polish girl with an English partner. Her English is gradually becoming more polished as she communicates with their friends and neighbours.
They are true neighbours in the old fashioned sense, helpful, considerate to others around them.
For me, that is equally elegant and polished in the most poetic way.
Believe me when i say, i sincerely hope no-one ever sends her back, i could have far worse neighbours from my own region. Equally as angry, Janet Ramsden from Wigan!

I think that elegance in poetry relates to the overall appearance/shape/lay-out.
Is there a possibility of a poem seeming to be inelegant where the format used is at odds with the content? This throwing the balance out of flunter?

I think polish relates to the technical aspects, grammar, punctuation if used, and as Isobel says, the tying up and tightening up of loose threads and ends.
I do agree that polish in this sense can strengthen and empower the poem.

I don't think that polish and elegance go hand in hand with ALL poetry though.
Anyone would be hard put in my opinion to make a tough, hard hitting rant look elegant and it would be completely out of place to try. To attempt that for it to look good on the page it would lose its power wouldn't it?
Same for poetry which is political though not necessarily a rant. Surely the genre makes some difference?

Punctuation can appear visually inelegant too.
I was having difficulty with this as well as using too much in my efforts to get it right.
Someone advised me to try using none at all. It works for me now and ultimately stops me worrying about whether it's right or not and funnily enough, not one person has commented on the lack of it where someone might have commented on a 'typo' previously.
Now perhaps i can focus more on polishing my softwood benches where lovers meet and kiss until the cows come home. ;-) or maybe not.x

I would agree with you Janet - there is good and bad in every race and culture. I think it is easy to feel threatened by another culture though when it starts to influx your own in large numbers. We have to remember though that that isn't the fault of the immigrant. Everyone has a right to try to improve their own lives and will follow whatever path that takes. The problem lies in the fact that this country is so vastly overpopulated as it is. Ho hum - perhaps we'll all be emigrating to Poland one day - then they can take their revenge...

Ah, but we're a horrible species. Let us return hence to the mud and shallow waters -- nay -- to the gases and primordial rocks polished by cosmic forces.
Angry of the Hadean Period

Sorry guys, I'm afraid my irony hasn't come across well! (I rather hoped the "Mr Angry of Tunbridge Wells" would do it.

It did it for me.

Me too! xx

Of course, the polis is a city state. And democracy, that tub of cracked lego, came out of the polis.

Yes - I understood that you were't serious too John. Can't imagine why I started papping on so seriously. Sometimes when an issue is raised, I can't help but start considering it from all angles. That can be an aggravating trait. It probably springs from boredom.

Am off to Southport now, for a fascinating walk round a wet filthy beach, followed by an extortionate theme park...

Enjoy! I am clearing out the cupboard under my stairs today! Can I bear to chuck out all those rusty paint tins and odd bits of floor tile that might come in handy some day?

Polis, Polish, and polish .... I will sure as God makes little green apples count my number of letters next time.

These threads are better than a good book - I have Christmas gifts languishing beside my bed getting no attention at all - and they look like a great read too!