In defence of vegetarianism, a lamb wouldn't kill a human if it was starving, nor would a calf, blinded from having been kept in the dark - nor would a sick duck, force-fed on grain till its liver burst.

Humans are capable of great cruelty when it comes to how they groom their meat. I can understand how that would lead to revulsion for those of a very spiritual nature.

I don't think Danny seeks to mock meat eaters in this poem. He is just expressing his despair in a passionate way.

Comment is about Dance of graved hunger. (blog)

Original item by Danny Metcalfe

Hi Gustle - many thanks for your recent comment - I would be interested to know WHY you think what you think - I need varying perspectives at the moment. You can be rough with me...

Comment is about Gus Jonsson (poet profile)

Original item by Gus Jonsson

Hi Mark - welcome to WOL. Hope you enjoy being part of the site and good luck with the next Planet Poetika event. You have to be very brave to organise things like that. I've had a go myself and reading your poem reminded me of how I felt when I was wondering if anyone would turn up! Luckily they did :)

Comment is about Mark Atkinson (poet profile)

Original item by Mark Atkinson

dying of starvation is a serious matter...first comes insanity and youd eat anything...not time for being nice to the animals that neil rightly points out would eat you first. its a noble idea i suppose that you would give your life for a fish. i question the reality of that

you still havent explained your 'pure' love statement.

Comment is about Dance of graved hunger. (blog)

Original item by Danny Metcalfe

'Our Lady of the Pylons' for me, then 'Hill Speak'.
But on the whole pretty much what you would expect the Poetry Society to go for.

Comment is about Allison McVety wins National Poetry Competition (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

I eat meat so the animal can live. My livestock would be condemned to never seeing the light of life if no one made use of them. (But I do insist on myself killing what I eat.)
I respect them, I hope they respect the way I treat them. Death has to be, for every living thing. And they have now found that plants can communicate their pain to neighbouring plants when damaged, so don't kill the lettuce.
Sorry, this may be tongue in cheek.

Comment is about Dance of graved hunger. (blog)

Original item by Danny Metcalfe

I'm sorry if you think that my contribution is a little 'old hat'. But you must acknowledge that all this elitist nonsense about 'one true love' is just flakey rubbish. You have your take on the world, but it has no more value than anyone elses. I've just watched a programme about the beauty and and brutality of wolves, who tear their living victims apart, that's nature and we just happen to be at the top of the food chain.
I don't think that humans are any more worthy than other creatures, we just happen to have developed self consciousness that allows us to reason and be aware of the world around us. And all this talk about sin is just so much religious nonsense.

Comment is about Dance of graved hunger. (blog)

Original item by Danny Metcalfe

Thanks Neil. beech ave is about our first house where a passage ran from the cellar to the middle of the road where the coal was once delivered. 39mil' is the No of plays for the excellent 'hurt' by j.cash on utube, I wrote it while listening.

Comment is about Neil Fawcett (poet profile)

Original item by Neil Fawcett

Thank-you Ann .. I seem to be dwelling on the passing of things .. time for a cuppa ! ( impressed with the singing).

Comment is about Ann Foxglove (poet profile)

Original item by Ann Foxglove

Hello Neil..thankyou ..you're right..I think the 'cycle' should be birth-reproduction-death-decay .. 'time' is a man-made idea for alarm clocks so you don't miss the bus for work.

Comment is about Neil Fawcett (poet profile)

Original item by Neil Fawcett

Oh, wow. That's a new one. I'll think that one over.

Comment is about Dance of graved hunger. (blog)

Original item by Danny Metcalfe

No, but the animal would certainly eat you given the opportunity.

Comment is about Dance of graved hunger. (blog)

Original item by Danny Metcalfe

It's not about being Superior, We are all one. We are all the same. It's about spiritual growth.

If I was stuck on a desert island I would much rather die than eat an animal. I wouldn't like to presume that an animal would want to give me his life for my survival. I have no way of knowing that. I would much rather have the animal survive.

The goal is to be selfless. No one is perfect but we should strive to be selfless.

Comment is about Dance of graved hunger. (blog)

Original item by Danny Metcalfe

ok danny, please explain this bit:

'For if you eat the flesh of animals, do not tell me you know what love is. You do not know love in it's purest and fullest form.'

its great its like something from the sermon on the mount. dont mind me and my fascism i just like the word. FASCIST.

i do like it. i only bother to comment on work i find engaging in some way and i like the gravity with which you write.

Comment is about Dance of graved hunger. (blog)

Original item by Danny Metcalfe

I have never heard a good argument for the eating of animals. And to just clear it up, I never said people who eat meat are less able to love. Let's get that straight. What I said has been misunderstood. And It has nothing to do with being Superior.

Comment is about Dance of graved hunger. (blog)

Original item by Danny Metcalfe

Just to say that I enjoyed the poem and the discussion - it made me think - and I like poetry that makes me think.

Comment is about Dance of graved hunger. (blog)

Original item by Danny Metcalfe

There you go Ann . These are the lyrics to one of my many songs . I performed this last week on BBC radio merseyside . Hope you enjoy .

Comment is about Tony Kehoe (poet profile)

Original item by Tony Kehoe

Clearly what each person/poet finds offensive in another person's poetry varies drastically from one to the other.

I was raised on offal because it was cheap. I learnt to eat whatever I was given - even to the point that I could cut the ventricles and dried blood out of heart (which my dad left in) then polish off the rest. I now have the constitution of an ox - pardon the pun... and I wouldn't dream of feeding my own children on a diet I considered defficient in essential vitamins.

Quite frankly, I don't give a hoot if vegetarians believe me to be less able to love because of my dietary beliefs and I don't find anything fascist in this poem. I would only be offended if I was physically prevented from eating what I wanted to.

A poem expressing personal beliefs is just not going to offend me - unless it's promoting or justifying paedophilia. Thankfully, I've at last reached a stage in my life when I can ignore just about anything else.

I do think the mass slaughtering and packaging of animals is quite distasteful. We have become divorced from the physicality of what we are doing. In my childhood, we kept ducks and geese, we ate road kill - we were part of a food chain - it seemed more acceptable because we were part of the cycle - if that makes sense.

Comment is about Dance of graved hunger. (blog)

Original item by Danny Metcalfe

I'm with Mike it's def. book making time! Once again Fabulous.

Comment is about Enter Violet (blog)

Original item by Marianne Daniels

Nick, they never appeared and if they did I had to slap my own hand twice. Best Wishes

Comment is about Forlorn (blog)

Original item by BT

Anyway, glad you like it. XD

Comment is about Dance of graved hunger. (blog)

Original item by Danny Metcalfe

isobel: 'gibberish' was meant to refer to my own writing, not this poem.

'a love that doesnt kill anything' is impossible it is impossible to live without killing anything. to live is to love. to infer that there are greater forms of love that only a select can feel is a fascist statement. any statement can be made in poetry..its right to expression is equal, but if that statement offends then the challenging its source is a natural response. i might write a list of other fascist ideas and i would only expect a challenge. because vegetarianism is about not killing animals does not make it a peaceful ideology neccessarily. lots of vegetarians have strange ideas about humans, Hitler for example.

Truly man is the king of beasts, for his brutality exceeds theirs. We live by the death of others: we are burial places! that is poetry and dead on. we are that by nature.

'For if you eat the flesh of animals, do not tell me you know what love is. You do not know love in it's purest and fullest form.'
that is a direct quote. i do not wish to twist your words.

'one day the world will learn' is a very self centred and patronising statement again with overtones of the idea of supremecy by ideology or otherwise. there is no such thing as a bloodless revolution.

i dont care what you eat as long as its not my cat.

'freedom for negative criticism' DISCLAIMER

*i write patronising, sanctimonious, condascending and all other negative style poetry all the time. i have a healthy respect for criticism that points this out.* please send all bully comments to my inbox.

Comment is about Dance of graved hunger. (blog)

Original item by Danny Metcalfe

I never said they were incapable of true love. You're twisting what I said.

I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.... ~Henry David Thoreau

To my mind, the life of a lamb is no less precious than that of a human being. I should be unwilling to take the life of a lamb for the sake of the human body. ~Mahatma Gandhi

Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet. ~Albert Einstein

We manage to swallow flesh only because we do not think of the cruel and sinful thing that we do. Cruelty... is a fundamental sin, and admits of no arguments or nice distinctions. If only we do not allow our heart to grow callous, it protests against cruelty, is always clearly heard; and yet we go on perpetrating cruelties easily, merrily, all of us - in fact, anyone who does not join in is dubbed a crank. ~Rabindranath Tagore

A man of my spiritual intensity does not eat corpses. ~George Bernard Shaw

Truly man is the king of beasts, for his brutality exceeds theirs. We live by the death of others: we are burial places! I have from an early age abjured the use of meat, and the time will come when men such as I will look on the murder of animals as they now look on the murder of men. ~Leonardo da Vinci

One day the world will learn.

Comment is about Dance of graved hunger. (blog)

Original item by Danny Metcalfe

Thanks for your comments Patricia and Deidre. Much appreciated

Comment is about The King Of Thorns (blog)

Original item by Glyn Pope

I wouldn't say this is gibberish and whether or not I or anyone disagrees with the sentiments expressed is irrelevant.

It's not fascist to believe in a love that doesn't kill anything. It is just another viewpoint that has a right to exist and express itself through poetry.

Comment is about Dance of graved hunger. (blog)

Original item by Danny Metcalfe

Hiya Nick..I get quite a few mind pictures from this, such as a drout tested land and people suffering from that..to a more personal feeling of denial by many..

I like it Nick :) Made me think.. :)

Comment is about The King Of Thorns (blog)

Original item by Glyn Pope

well i could write gibberish and it would be as credible a statement as one that says meateaters are incapable of true love.

a loyt of vegetarians assume that meat eaters are ignorant to their cause. not true i know 100s of ex vegetarians who now eat meat. i am one. the vegetarian friends i have who continue to live meat free never really ever mention it. they are an example by their actions.

i am all for writing about issues any of them but your statement about love is fascist. think about it.

Comment is about Dance of graved hunger. (blog)

Original item by Danny Metcalfe

Hiya Izz and Happy Easter m'dear...

I need to read the bible Izz I really do...So pleased that you liked..I guess it could relate to any loss as such but wanted to put that religious slant on it..ta muchly for your comments xxx

Comment is about Isobel (poet profile)

Original item by Isobel

Another fine contribution from this source.
Touching, angry and profoundly moving...as anyone of a "certain age" will acknowledge,
it is welcome for the truth of the irresistible
transition from "lent-on" to "leaning-on" that great age can inflict on us all and the
humanity in this recognition and telling of it.

Comment is about My Dad (blog)

Original item by John Coopey

Apt and enjoyable.

Thank you.

Comment is about The King Of Thorns (blog)

Original item by Glyn Pope

Hi Steve. Been there, done that, mate. Nice one!

Comment is about steve pottinger (poet profile)

Original item by steve pottinger

Oh dear.

Comment is about Dance of graved hunger. (blog)

Original item by Danny Metcalfe

haha ill see you in tescos when your malnourished from eating nuts and drooling over the meat counter, hoping non of our veggie police friends can see you.
trapped on a desert island youll be screaming over your coconuts whilst i roast up a nice fish...unconditional love is based on sacrifice.

Comment is about Dance of graved hunger. (blog)

Original item by Danny Metcalfe

cheers for the comment over in dreams, gus... perhaps i should become of the dirty thirty but cathy would probably beat me up - lol..

hope you are good.

i'm working not that far from your studio.. should defo pop over after work when i can and you are around..

Comment is about Gus Jonsson (poet profile)

Original item by Gus Jonsson

lovely, gus.. great stuff - always enjoy reading your stuff and this is no expectation...

Comment is about Into The Light (blog)

Original item by Gus Jonsson

and he's still going strong, Win... don't normally write in this kind of speed - well not since i was about 20 or 21, but it's good fun doing it short term as if i am lucky - may get a few pieces that i can go back to and rework at a later date..

hope you are good

speak soon

Comment is about Winston Plowes (poet profile)

Original item by Winston Plowes

thanks for the comment on in dreams Laura, yeah, I was in the lovey poem mode for the first one of these and Cathy loved it when she saw it.

The first part of the title is in reference to this - http://www.napowrimo.net where if you follow - you have to try to write 30 poems in 30 days... i've managed the first five even though if they are a little rough in places...

My blog over this is http://30poemsin30days.blogspot.co.uk.

No plans to publish all of the poems on here as it's too many but a selected few maybe a good idea...

speak soon x

Comment is about Laura Taylor (poet profile)

Original item by Laura Taylor

thanks for the comment on in dreams Isobel, yeah.. i sort of wrote this when cathy was asleep - it made me blush big style - lol in particular the reference to my love remaining a constant.

the first part of the title is in reference to this - http://www.napowrimo.net where if you follow - you have to try to write 30 poems in 30 days... i've managed the first five even though if they are a little rough in places...

My blog over this is http://30poemsin30days.blogspot.co.uk.

No plans to publish all of the poems on here as it's too many but a selected few maybe a good idea...

speak soon x

Comment is about Isobel (poet profile)

Original item by Isobel

Actually I thought this has been knocked back a week this month - 16/04/2012..

Comment is about Write Out Loud Stockport: it's tonight (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

One day we will look back in disgust at how we treated animals. One day we will look upon the murder of animals as we look upon the murder of Humans. And I don't care if eating animals has a benefit of survival, what I care about is if what we eat can suffer. And the answer to that is yes, they can."I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't...The pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further."
Mark Twain
We do not need to eat meat to survive. We can easily live off , fruit, veg, nuts ect. And to quote Albert Einstein- 'Besides agreeing with the aims of vegetarianism for aesthetic and moral reasons, it is my view that a vegetarian manner of living by its purely physical effect on the human temperament would most beneficially influence the lot of mankind."

And yes there are many forms of love. But there is only one true love, only one that is real. The rest are just fake, conditional, Tesco value copies.

Comment is about Dance of graved hunger. (blog)

Original item by Danny Metcalfe

OOPS I tried to add an audio file to the original entry and managed to delete it! So here it is again.
Technology is alright in its place but that does not appear to be under my fingers!

Comment is about Kushagarnie (blog)

Original item by Yvonne Brunton

I didn't have a penny so I sat cross-legged in the rearmost pew - Phew! An eye for an aye! and a wee for a pee. Or something similar, chow for now, Nick.

Comment is about KEEPING WATCH (blog)

Original item by M.C. Newberry

Snatch a moment then rip it to bits. The best shreds may be cherrieshed for a thousand years - then dumped uncerimoniously! Oops, over the top again! Chow for now, Nick.

Comment is about Tommy Carroll (poet profile)

Original item by Tommy Carroll

In hindsight good memories linger the best. A wonderful jerker if I ever read one. Ta most Sincerely, NIck.

Comment is about My Dad (blog)

Original item by John Coopey

I didn't read the first version so I'm at a disadvantage. I did kind of think this might be about vegetarianism though - the fact that if humans were capable of love in its purest form, they could not kill or feed off another living thing? Or perhaps you intended it as a metaphor for people feeding off each other, rather than loving in a wholesome way.

There are clearly different kinds of love. I could do all of those things Rachel says to save one of my children - I'm not sure I could ever do the same for a man though - he'd have to fight it out for himself...

Comment is about Dance of graved hunger. (blog)

Original item by Danny Metcalfe

It's what we wll dread isn't it, John - seeing our parents metamorphose into needy children, reversing the roles on us? The fond memories we have are tainted by an unbidden revulsion we struggle to conceal.
My dad could remove and replace bike tyres with his hands too (ps verse 3 line 5 should it read 'too hard'?
I enjoyed reading this . It awakened some treasured and bitter memories.

Comment is about My Dad (blog)

Original item by John Coopey

i repeat: for love i would sacrifice a lamb and choke the neck of an adultress.for love i would kill. hunger the same. survival.

preferred shorter version, more power in it.

Comment is about Dance of graved hunger. (blog)

Original item by Danny Metcalfe

Hello MC. Glad you liked "A Trip to the Chemist" and "There's Allus a Dribble That's Left". I'll leave you to decide if any/both are autobiographical or not!

Comment is about M.C. Newberry (poet profile)

Original item by M.C. Newberry

Glad you enjoyed "A Trip to the Chemist", Larisa. I wasn't sure that some of the references would be easily understood by you. I hope so.
I enjoyed your joke!

Comment is about Larisa Rzhepishevska (poet profile)

Original item by Larisa Rzhepishevska