Sat 7th Apr 2012 20:59
Andy's poem The Spell reminds me of the line from the Victorian poet, Earnest Dowson, now forgotten.
'They are not long these days of wine and roses.'
It was used for the title of Jack Lemmon's 1962 film.
Have you read T.S. Eliot's Four Quartets Andy?
Comment is about Solitude Gets Lonely (blog)
The date has now been corrected. Thanks for pointing this out, Andy.
Comment is about Write Out Loud Stockport: it's tonight (article)
Original item by Greg Freeman
Sat 7th Apr 2012 20:04
How right you are M.C,despite the trials and tribulations, i can only repeat whats been said time and time again, Those were the good old days,have a nice day.
Comment is about A SNIPPET FROM OLDLANCSMAN (blog)
Original item by oldlancsman
Sat 7th Apr 2012 19:24
Henri de Montherlant wrote... 'Happiness writes white.' One can't see it.
Comment is about Deadline nears for Warrington poetry contest (article)
Sat 7th Apr 2012 18:06
Thank you all for your comments. I've long been split in two by the desire for love and the need to be alone. Being alone seems to suit me best more often than not but around every corner...who knows.
Nick, i do 'perform' my poems regularly but i've yet to read Admission. I might try it next time. I'll let you know how it's received if/when i do.
I'm inclined to concur with your final sentiment M.C., and every time i witness some altercation between supposed lovers i count myself lucky. But then at other times i do feel very wistful. Still, you can't have it all.Thanks again
Sat 7th Apr 2012 16:57
I am enjoying your word craft Andy..Very much like the thoughts behind your writes..nice work. :)
Sat 7th Apr 2012 16:53
Really like the line after dreaming away our allowance..
I thought this a good observation of many..enjoyed :)
Comment is about Through the windows of our days (blog)
Original item by Patricia and Stefan Wilde
Sat 7th Apr 2012 16:50
hello there Steve..mmm I too dislike aspects of religion so I guess I tried to put a slant on this one and get that feeling of loss in it so I am chuffed you got that feel of it..Hope you are well?.. :)
Comment is about steve mellor (Poet profile)
Original item by steve mellor
Sat 7th Apr 2012 16:35
Enjoyed reading this and I too admired the 'verse/wordcraft'and in particular "Admision", though all works well as a whole. Another example of poetry that would sound good read aloud.
Sat 7th Apr 2012 15:42
Oldies are Goldies...yeah!
Sat 7th Apr 2012 15:38
The excellence of the verse/wordcraft deserves
admiration. I particularly liked "Admission"
for that reason, as well the honesty of the content. These are top examples of thought and
feeling in verse.
But...as for the prevailing sentiment...
"I see prisoners of love's spell,
But like my freedom just as well."
Sat 7th Apr 2012 14:16
mmm....food for thought.
life is pain. love is pain. the human condition is that we are seperate from godhood (ie unity) i do not believe that love is all about achieving this nirvana. it is about accepting the world for what it is. love pain warts and all. it is impossible for life without death..what of all the little microbes and tiny insect types that we flatten everyday. what if there is a bigger entity beyond comprehension shaking up the globe and causing tidal waves? some things are beyond us..its a bit of an assumption to presume aliens are anything like us and have a dietry tract. there could be aliens draining my lifeforce from this very laptop right now and sucking it into computer juice! haha
i taught myself to cook as a vegetarian theres something to be said about the colour and texture and vibrancy of veg. i think it certainly turns on the taste buds and saliva bits. i am not against vegetarianism good cause, but my belief systems are different which is my right to have. if you were to defend an animal against me in combat and it got away i might be forced to chop you up and eat you instead. cannibalism is rife ;)
Comment is about Dance of graved hunger. (blog)
Original item by Danny Metcalfe
Sat 7th Apr 2012 13:51
I find when talking to people about this and they are against not eating meat. They have double standards. And I quote George Bernard Shaw- "If a group of beings from another planet were to land on Earth -- beings who considered themselves as superior to you as you feel yourself to be to other animals -- would you concede them the rights over you that you assume over other animals?"
And they always say no. They would not like to be treat like that.
And if an intelligent race did come to our Earth I doubt they would use us has food. If they have the intelligence to travel to our earth from another planet, I presume they have evolved enough not to cause pain to other beings.
Sat 7th Apr 2012 13:43
You can love one person unconditonally or your family the same. But that is not love in it's fullest form. You need to love yourself, love others, all Humanity, animals, all living beings. Love for the Universe and everything in it. All is one. Unity. If you see everything as one you wouldn't want to eat animals. You would love them. You wouldn't want to cause them pain or kill them, you would let them die by their own means, not by us killing them.
Unity. If a being has the ability to suffer then what right do we have to cause that being pain? And what for? Our pleasure, beacause we like the taste? We need it to survive? We can get everything we need to survive without eating meat. And I'm sure if the tables were turned and Humans were treat like we treat animals, there would be hell on.
Sat 7th Apr 2012 12:57
please explain it again for the feeble minded among us. why do you say that a meat eater does not know love in its true and fullest form?
Sat 7th Apr 2012 12:52
I have explained. You are not understanding. And don't take that as being 'superior'
Sat 7th Apr 2012 12:39
you still have not offered an explanation of your statement about love.
it was the strongest statement you made and the only interesting bit to me.
carnivores/herbivores...we are omnivorous and have choice. thats it. but still your tone, language, style, content of this poem and subsequent comments, choice of quotes are suggestive of ideas of the supremecy of a vegetarian lifestyle. i find it a bit ridiculous and would love to read what your thoughts are surrounding that grandiose idea:
For if you eat the flesh of animals, do not tell me you know what love is. You do not know love in it's purest and fullest form.'
please do explain enlightened one.
the closest i got to spiritual enlightenment as a vegetarian was a slight buzz whilst talking to cows due to release of guilt conscience. they did not talk back were merely oblivious to my presence except as a target for pssible death by stampede.
are you vegan? what about all that terrible cruelty?
hindu belief systems claim the incorporation of the living soul of that which we eat. i like the idea of being part cow and not particular interested in living with soul of carrot say...i could talk veggie bullshit all day, moooo.
Sat 7th Apr 2012 12:29
I found this increasingly somewhat discordant ,interesting. I'm not sure whether this is a statement of faith or a more ambivalent examination of the subject matter.
I enjoyed it, for some reason I liked 'and paths can be a rocky skin.'
Comment is about The King Of Thorns (blog)
Original item by Glyn Pope
Sat 7th Apr 2012 11:11
Oh. Spiffing. mate.
Sat 7th Apr 2012 11:00
You need to go and meditate mate.
Sat 7th Apr 2012 10:52
Interesting...though I would argue your point of it NOT being a poem Nick. It reminds me of the line ( written by Dalton Trumbo)in 'Spartacus' When asked by Crassus 'who is Spartacus?' the retort came from the multitude- ''I am Spartacus!''
Comment is about Ethnic Cleansing (blog)
Original item by Nick Coleman
Sat 7th Apr 2012 10:31
Oh and the plant thing. No reputable study has ever shown that plants can "feel pain". They lack the nervous system and brain necessary for this to happen. A plant can respond to stimuli, for example by turning towards the light or closing over a fly, but that is not the same thing. It is also hard to see what purpose pain could serve for the plant, since they can hardly run away.
Sat 7th Apr 2012 10:29
I have heard these same arguments before about the bloody food chain and I eat meat so the animal can live. It means nothing. Still not a good argument to eat meat. And I've had people saying 'well animals do it in nature' Fucking hell, what a stupid world we live in. It's about growing.
We are one with the animals but we lack unity with them.
The reason why the world lacks unity,
and lies broken and in heaps,
is because man is disunited with himself.
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
He who experiences the unity of life sees his own Self in all beings,
and all beings in his own Self, and looks on everything with an impartial eye.
Sat 7th Apr 2012 10:13
In defence of vegetarianism, a lamb wouldn't kill a human if it was starving, nor would a calf, blinded from having been kept in the dark - nor would a sick duck, force-fed on grain till its liver burst.
Humans are capable of great cruelty when it comes to how they groom their meat. I can understand how that would lead to revulsion for those of a very spiritual nature.
I don't think Danny seeks to mock meat eaters in this poem. He is just expressing his despair in a passionate way.
Sat 7th Apr 2012 10:00
Hi Gustle - many thanks for your recent comment - I would be interested to know WHY you think what you think - I need varying perspectives at the moment. You can be rough with me...
Comment is about Gus Jonsson (Poet profile)
Original item by Gus Jonsson
Sat 7th Apr 2012 07:12
Hi Mark - welcome to WOL. Hope you enjoy being part of the site and good luck with the next Planet Poetika event. You have to be very brave to organise things like that. I've had a go myself and reading your poem reminded me of how I felt when I was wondering if anyone would turn up! Luckily they did :)
Comment is about Mark Atkinson (Poet profile)
Original item by Mark Atkinson
Sat 7th Apr 2012 00:51
dying of starvation is a serious matter...first comes insanity and youd eat anything...not time for being nice to the animals that neil rightly points out would eat you first. its a noble idea i suppose that you would give your life for a fish. i question the reality of that
you still havent explained your 'pure' love statement.
Sat 7th Apr 2012 00:03
'Our Lady of the Pylons' for me, then 'Hill Speak'.
But on the whole pretty much what you would expect the Poetry Society to go for.
Comment is about Allison McVety wins National Poetry Competition (article)
Fri 6th Apr 2012 23:51
I eat meat so the animal can live. My livestock would be condemned to never seeing the light of life if no one made use of them. (But I do insist on myself killing what I eat.)
I respect them, I hope they respect the way I treat them. Death has to be, for every living thing. And they have now found that plants can communicate their pain to neighbouring plants when damaged, so don't kill the lettuce.
Sorry, this may be tongue in cheek.
Fri 6th Apr 2012 23:37
I'm sorry if you think that my contribution is a little 'old hat'. But you must acknowledge that all this elitist nonsense about 'one true love' is just flakey rubbish. You have your take on the world, but it has no more value than anyone elses. I've just watched a programme about the beauty and and brutality of wolves, who tear their living victims apart, that's nature and we just happen to be at the top of the food chain.
I don't think that humans are any more worthy than other creatures, we just happen to have developed self consciousness that allows us to reason and be aware of the world around us. And all this talk about sin is just so much religious nonsense.
Fri 6th Apr 2012 22:08
Thanks Neil. beech ave is about our first house where a passage ran from the cellar to the middle of the road where the coal was once delivered. 39mil' is the No of plays for the excellent 'hurt' by j.cash on utube, I wrote it while listening.
Comment is about Neil Fawcett (Poet profile)
Original item by Neil Fawcett
Fri 6th Apr 2012 20:56
Thank-you Ann .. I seem to be dwelling on the passing of things .. time for a cuppa ! ( impressed with the singing).
Comment is about Ann Foxglove (Poet profile)
Original item by Ann Foxglove
Fri 6th Apr 2012 20:52
Hello Neil..thankyou ..you're right..I think the 'cycle' should be birth-reproduction-death-decay .. 'time' is a man-made idea for alarm clocks so you don't miss the bus for work.
Fri 6th Apr 2012 20:18
Oh, wow. That's a new one. I'll think that one over.
Fri 6th Apr 2012 20:00
No, but the animal would certainly eat you given the opportunity.
Fri 6th Apr 2012 19:42
It's not about being Superior, We are all one. We are all the same. It's about spiritual growth.
If I was stuck on a desert island I would much rather die than eat an animal. I wouldn't like to presume that an animal would want to give me his life for my survival. I have no way of knowing that. I would much rather have the animal survive.
The goal is to be selfless. No one is perfect but we should strive to be selfless.
Fri 6th Apr 2012 19:17
ok danny, please explain this bit:
'For if you eat the flesh of animals, do not tell me you know what love is. You do not know love in it's purest and fullest form.'
its great its like something from the sermon on the mount. dont mind me and my fascism i just like the word. FASCIST.
i do like it. i only bother to comment on work i find engaging in some way and i like the gravity with which you write.
Fri 6th Apr 2012 18:45
I have never heard a good argument for the eating of animals. And to just clear it up, I never said people who eat meat are less able to love. Let's get that straight. What I said has been misunderstood. And It has nothing to do with being Superior.
Fri 6th Apr 2012 18:37
This piece is so much fun. Thank you for the fantastic trip.
"The blast-off came quick, which made them feel sick,
As they garbaged their way to the moon,
A dustbin flew past but that wouldn’t last
Since its flowers were in bloom too soon."
Comment is about Space Knits (blog)
Original item by Nick Clifton
Fri 6th Apr 2012 18:36
Just to say that I enjoyed the poem and the discussion - it made me think - and I like poetry that makes me think.
Fri 6th Apr 2012 18:35
There you go Ann . These are the lyrics to one of my many songs . I performed this last week on BBC radio merseyside . Hope you enjoy .
Comment is about Tony Kehoe (Poet profile)
Original item by Tony Kehoe
Fri 6th Apr 2012 18:32
Clearly what each person/poet finds offensive in another person's poetry varies drastically from one to the other.
I was raised on offal because it was cheap. I learnt to eat whatever I was given - even to the point that I could cut the ventricles and dried blood out of heart (which my dad left in) then polish off the rest. I now have the constitution of an ox - pardon the pun... and I wouldn't dream of feeding my own children on a diet I considered defficient in essential vitamins.
Quite frankly, I don't give a hoot if vegetarians believe me to be less able to love because of my dietary beliefs and I don't find anything fascist in this poem. I would only be offended if I was physically prevented from eating what I wanted to.
A poem expressing personal beliefs is just not going to offend me - unless it's promoting or justifying paedophilia. Thankfully, I've at last reached a stage in my life when I can ignore just about anything else.
I do think the mass slaughtering and packaging of animals is quite distasteful. We have become divorced from the physicality of what we are doing. In my childhood, we kept ducks and geese, we ate road kill - we were part of a food chain - it seemed more acceptable because we were part of the cycle - if that makes sense.
Fri 6th Apr 2012 18:28
I'm with Mike it's def. book making time! Once again Fabulous.
Comment is about Enter Violet (blog)
Original item by Marianne Daniels
Fri 6th Apr 2012 18:25
Nick, they never appeared and if they did I had to slap my own hand twice. Best Wishes
Comment is about Forlorn (blog)
Original item by BT
Fri 6th Apr 2012 18:21
Anyway, glad you like it. XD
Fri 6th Apr 2012 17:56
isobel: 'gibberish' was meant to refer to my own writing, not this poem.
'a love that doesnt kill anything' is impossible it is impossible to live without killing anything. to live is to love. to infer that there are greater forms of love that only a select can feel is a fascist statement. any statement can be made in poetry..its right to expression is equal, but if that statement offends then the challenging its source is a natural response. i might write a list of other fascist ideas and i would only expect a challenge. because vegetarianism is about not killing animals does not make it a peaceful ideology neccessarily. lots of vegetarians have strange ideas about humans, Hitler for example.
Truly man is the king of beasts, for his brutality exceeds theirs. We live by the death of others: we are burial places! that is poetry and dead on. we are that by nature.
'For if you eat the flesh of animals, do not tell me you know what love is. You do not know love in it's purest and fullest form.'
that is a direct quote. i do not wish to twist your words.
'one day the world will learn' is a very self centred and patronising statement again with overtones of the idea of supremecy by ideology or otherwise. there is no such thing as a bloodless revolution.
i dont care what you eat as long as its not my cat.
'freedom for negative criticism' DISCLAIMER
*i write patronising, sanctimonious, condascending and all other negative style poetry all the time. i have a healthy respect for criticism that points this out.* please send all bully comments to my inbox.
Fri 6th Apr 2012 17:44
I never said they were incapable of true love. You're twisting what I said.
I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.... ~Henry David Thoreau
To my mind, the life of a lamb is no less precious than that of a human being. I should be unwilling to take the life of a lamb for the sake of the human body. ~Mahatma Gandhi
Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet. ~Albert Einstein
We manage to swallow flesh only because we do not think of the cruel and sinful thing that we do. Cruelty... is a fundamental sin, and admits of no arguments or nice distinctions. If only we do not allow our heart to grow callous, it protests against cruelty, is always clearly heard; and yet we go on perpetrating cruelties easily, merrily, all of us - in fact, anyone who does not join in is dubbed a crank. ~Rabindranath Tagore
A man of my spiritual intensity does not eat corpses. ~George Bernard Shaw
Truly man is the king of beasts, for his brutality exceeds theirs. We live by the death of others: we are burial places! I have from an early age abjured the use of meat, and the time will come when men such as I will look on the murder of animals as they now look on the murder of men. ~Leonardo da Vinci
One day the world will learn.
Fri 6th Apr 2012 17:40
Thanks for your comments Patricia and Deidre. Much appreciated
Fri 6th Apr 2012 17:30
I wouldn't say this is gibberish and whether or not I or anyone disagrees with the sentiments expressed is irrelevant.
It's not fascist to believe in a love that doesn't kill anything. It is just another viewpoint that has a right to exist and express itself through poetry.
Fri 6th Apr 2012 17:10
Hiya Nick..I get quite a few mind pictures from this, such as a drout tested land and people suffering from that..to a more personal feeling of denial by many..
I like it Nick :) Made me think.. :)
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