Tue 16th Apr 2013 16:21
I thank you for your comments. A bit rushed but I felt the need to mark, not her passing so much as my dislike of how hypocritical she was and all this is; the way her death is being exploited by others on both 'sides'. In the end, whatever you make of it all, she is someone's grandma, and should be buried by her family with the respect one would give to any dead grandmother; not all this exploitation which will backfire on the Tory party, I am sure. Unless you take a conspiracy view, that they are using it cynically to provoke a reaction.
Comment is about We have become a dead grandmother (blog)
Original item by Julian Jordon
Tue 16th Apr 2013 15:42
Chris - your response was appreciated. My main quibble is that if Thatcher was so reviled by so many as it generally put about by "the other side", just where did her mandate to gain a third term of office come from? As for her "friends", where is the mention of her dealings with De Klerk that preceded the subsequent transition of power in South Africa? And what about the massive importance of her contacts with Gorbachev that saw the historic decline of communism and the ensuing meaning of freedom for many across the expanding world?It's easy enough to dwell on the perceived failings of selective choices (even if, in the wider political sense, these probably amounted to very little of actual importance in effect).
It's clear there was anger at the apparently endless demands of unions of whatever origin, with their avowedly HARD LEFT of centre leadership which clearly had little care for what the rest of the country wanted - or thought about their behaviour. They led their members to confrontation and their members allowed it. This country has NEVER been of a hard left persuasion and that ideology got ideas above its station with its attitudes and demands. In short, parts of the UK under a hardwired ideology at odds with the majority population took up a cause with all its risks - and lost. To cry foul for what happened afterwards seems a bit lame so many years on...with a decade of Labour government in place since. Where are the millions from the many Labour millionaires that could help kickstart deprived areas that always vote Labour. The numerous luvvies of the vastly rich entertainment world rarely turn down a chance to flaunt their Labour credentials - so where are THEY when it comes to alleviating the hardship of the "comrades" and their "communities"?
It is reported that famous Liverpudlian Sir Paul MacCartney is worth over £600 million. Not a bad fund of dosh to help the city and its less well off! Our Victorian forebears were quick to commit to social causes like the famous "Peabody Estates". Where are today's equivalent benefactors to the "working class"?Notable by their absence, it seems!
Comment is about Nothing Left (blog)
Original item by Chris Co
Tue 16th Apr 2013 15:24
Thank you Alex!! Take care, Tony.
Comment is about Singer songwriter (blog)
Tue 16th Apr 2013 14:54
Laura, well said! Some people on here are so blinkered and out of touch it's unreal. I find being labelled cold, ignorant and unfeeling just because I choose not to mourn (and neither do I celebrate)the death of an individual that I associate with so many of todays ills more than insulting, some people need to take their heads out of their arses.
Comment is about Wordsworth's Ode to be read aloud at Thatcher's funeral (article)
Original item by Greg Freeman
Tue 16th Apr 2013 14:52
An intriguing mixture of "old-fashioned" often "elevated" phraseology and an obvious affinity with nature and its gifts, presented in a style that is almost Victorian in effect.
Last line - I'm unsure about "her's"...what does this refer to?
Comment is about On A May Glory- A Welcome Song (blog)
Original item by Nithinpurple
Tue 16th Apr 2013 14:51
Thanks for your comments on 'Citizen's Lament'
and I will remove the first 'or' as you suggested.
Comment is about Cynthia Buell Thomas (poet profile)
Original item by Cynthia Buell Thomas
Tue 16th Apr 2013 14:26
JC - at least your stuff has something to say - AND is always entertaining to boot. Not a bad thing on any writers' site worth the name.
Comment is about "Here's My Tits - My Arse's Behind" (blog)
Original item by John Coopey
Tue 16th Apr 2013 14:10
hello MC...thanks for the comment on my latest...rarely do I do political poetry..it bores me to distraction. One my face book page I actually put a comment about wanting to write about bears, then all the gumph happened and Mrs T was everywhere..but I must admit I do not mourn her passing. Again thanks for your comment. :)
Comment is about M.C. Newberry (poet profile)
Original item by M.C. Newberry
Tue 16th Apr 2013 14:08
I enjoyed the sardonic use of "We have become a (dead)grandmother" to set the style of the content, which, by necessity I guess, would not be appropriate to anything positive in her achievements in office. One of the more imaginative contributions of its type, with its adoption of some well-known lines from elsewhere to enhance the overall effect.
Marianne Louise Daniels
Tue 16th Apr 2013 14:03
Thank you Cynthia - for your time and comments. Perhaps I should let go of the punctuation for a while... the pace is important to me but sometimes I do get tangled up! Am hoping to hear you read at Sale tonight so be nice to say hello. x
Comment is about The Seagull (blog)
Original item by Marianne Daniels
Tue 16th Apr 2013 13:55
Hi Greg - I equate "You're entitled to your view" with the words "with respect"...not necessarily meaning exactly what they say :-))
My view is based on direct involvement in many instances and the wider state of the countryin the years leading up to the confrontation with the Scargill faction. It seemed that there were those in this country who would (and could) have brought it to its knees given the chance and the "proof of the pudding wasin the eating" in occurrence after occurrence. If there were "two countries", it was because the South, with its settled and substantial population, was increasingly disenchanted with activities and avarice it did not agree with or understand. You rightly admire Churchill as a great war leader, but his own early record confronting industrial unrest (when it was most certainly more justified given the far greater social/material deprivation) was of a hardline no-nonsense variety that earned him the hate of those involved. I recall that he took the "send in troops/police" view at the time. The nature of the times and political precedent tend to set the agenda for action by the government of any era. Thatcher had Heath's experience/downfall to bolster her decisions and actions. The likes of "Red Robbo", Scargill et al represented the crocodiles which Churchill himself believed could not be appeased and, it can be argued, the miners' strike and its residual effects were a direct result of all that had gone before in year after year of demands and disputes that were so damaging to the country and its prospects in the emerging global economy. Even Neil Kinnock had to disassociate himself from the Militant Tendency and the likes of Derek Hatton to retain any chance of popular or even Party support. It was too late for him, but Tony Blair was the ultimate beneficiary.
Comment is about Margaret Thatcher: how I missed my moment (blog)
Good technique - very tight Julian - Loved it :-)
Tue 16th Apr 2013 11:46
Yes, its a great night and venue in capable hands. Win x
Comment is about CBT in Sale on Tuesday (blog)
Tue 16th Apr 2013 11:45
Hi Cynthia, thx for popping by and commenting on my poem Never- Win x
Cynthia Buell Thomas
Tue 16th Apr 2013 11:25
Very atmospheric. Would you consider scrapping most punctuation and letting the reader coast through your words? I think we would arrange your ideas without being steered. I do know that many winning poems in contests are still much punctuated, like image-heavy prose. Yet, I embrace unharnessing words, giving them freedom to fall into your mind (as you do yourself, although I am nowhere as skillful as you are.) Perhaps you are experimenting -different styles for different poems. Balance is hard, but you are the BOSS.
Tue 16th Apr 2013 10:55
This is very well written, with clever twists of words and meaning. I compliment the poem itself, not necessarily the expressed opinions.
Tue 16th Apr 2013 10:48
I don't dispute, Greg, that Thatcher was a nasty piece of work, ultimately with an arrogance and self belief that bordered on insanity. Nevertheless, at the time she came to power Britain was an international embarrassment. Even the USSR thought our products were too shoddy to buy. Something drastic had to be done.
Tue 16th Apr 2013 10:44
I totally agree with Solar - the only poem I felt inclined to comment upon. It's basically the same points but presented without the 'rant' element and therefore, IMO, more penetrating.
Comment is about mild frenzy (blog)
Original item by Paul Sands
Tue 16th Apr 2013 10:39
A Novel in a Nutshell - that's what your poems are - speed reading and missing nothing. It's a real talent.
Comment is about Big Danny's girl. (blog)
Original item by mike watts
Tue 16th Apr 2013 10:32
Good one, Winston, just plain interesting. I like the structure of the copy.
Comment is about Never - (blog)
Original item by Winston Plowes
Tue 16th Apr 2013 10:26
This poem is sharp, in concept and in craftsmanship, full of original images that excite all the senses and push the brain into high gear. It is an - experience - one of the best poems I have ever read. I salute a master hand.
Comment is about Synaesthetes night out at Cafe Oto (blog)
Original item by pauline sewards
Tue 16th Apr 2013 10:08
Graham - you presume too much. I prize good manners and respect above most other things and indeed they were the first things I taught my daughter. Do you think I would be like this over any other funeral/person?! Do you think other people who are reacting the same way as me would too? That's some insult there.
I am becoming quite enraged at being told what to think and how to feel about all of this by the way, by people who did not live my life, who were not subject to the humiliation, the shame, the absolute grind of existence that me, my family, and everyone around me lived through. By people who don't seem to have acknowledged any of her serious crimes against humanity, her collusion with an out-of-control, violent and fascistic police force. You can have your own thoughts on this, but you respect mine and I'll respect yours. I'll not tell you to feel the way I do, so stop telling me to feel the way you do.
She's having a service today - why can't that just be it?
Why is this amount of public money being allowed to be spent on an extra state funeral (and it IS a state funeral - missing out the word 'state' does not make it otherwise) when families are being evicted, food banks are having to be used, and the people on a lower financial rung are being demonised and punished purely for being without money?
It is obscene beyond measure, and I am incensed by it all.
Tue 16th Apr 2013 08:35
Nice one, Tommy! Right wing, middle-class dinosaurs whose days are, thankfully, numbered.
Tue 16th Apr 2013 08:34
Your point is well made, Graham. I am also from such an era. When I was little all following traffic would remain behind the cortege rather than overtake, as a mark of respect.
I mourn the passing of such an era when people had respect for others, which is sadly less a part of our society now; and much of that change in attitude is down to her promulgating the self-first, no-such-thing-as-society philosophy.
As for the funeral itself, were it a private, rather than state, affair, I would wish that she were treated like anyone else from her era, with the respect you suggest; the problem is that her funeral - to the apparent disgust of the queen - has been hijacked as a publicity stunt by members of the government. It is that to which I object. It is also foolish of them, as she was clearly a divisive figure and their insensitivy is fanning the flames of dissent.
Tue 16th Apr 2013 07:41
Graham, I doubt many of the dead that passed yourself and your father had the same devastating impact on communities and the country as what Thatcher did. Would you have removed your hats and bowed your heads if it had been Hitler, Saddam Hussein or Osama Bin Laden? I thought not! Why do you think that all of these comments are being posted? Why do you think that in some areas her death is being celebrated? It's because she was loathed and sadly, her legacy still thrives today.
Mon 15th Apr 2013 23:48
I give in, Tommy. I just can't compete with your wit and repartee.
Comment is about Tommy Carroll (poet profile)
Original item by Tommy Carroll
Mon 15th Apr 2013 23:31
Cheers Chris. Great to see both you and Natalie and thanks for the comment.
No offence taken at all. I was annoyed as you were trying to read and somebody was going on and we couldn't hear you.
Look forward to seeing you both soon.
Comment is about Louise Coulson (poet profile)
Original item by Louise Coulson
Mon 15th Apr 2013 22:50
John when you met Blair- did you cum in your drawers?
Mon 15th Apr 2013 22:42
When I was a young lad, I remember walking along the High St in our town and seeing an approaching funeral cortege, my father stood at the kerbside (as did I) with our heads bowed. Other men took off their hats and bowed also. We didn't even know the occupant of the coffin, it was just respect and knowing how to behave.
I've been posting on here for a couple of years now and I thought that there were a lot of good eggs contributing too.
Having read some of the comments on sundry Maggie related pieces, I guess many have just not been brought up the way I was. Shame.
Mon 15th Apr 2013 22:26
Thatchers lasting legacy: developing ways to aerate ice-cream in order to keep the bulk but reduce content-hence raising profits. Adulteration.
Mon 15th Apr 2013 21:32
Ahhh Laura..knew you would make it your own..and you have lady..x :) x
Comment is about Dear Margaret (blog)
Original item by Laura Taylor
Mon 15th Apr 2013 21:29
Hey Ged...nice one....and as usual with that great flow that works so well..Going to love hearing this!
Comment is about Ripples of Detriment (blog)
Original item by Ged Thompson/ Liverpool Poet
Mon 15th Apr 2013 21:23
Just to reassure you - I don't think there were any hecklers as such, at the last Tudor.
There was one lady talking very loudly in the corridor, seemingly unaware there was a poetry night going on right next to her - and there was a very drunk local standing by the gents. I'm not sure if he was meaning to shout encouragement or whether he was just very drunk and shouting for the hell of it. That's a bit of an occupational hazard of performing at the Tudor - for me it's part of the whole charm of it - no month is ever the same :))
Comment is about Chris Co (poet profile)
This poem was runner-up in the Poetic Republic poetry prize (formerly known as the MAG prize)and subsequently published in the e-book 'Poems to Talk About' available from Amazon.
Comment is about Memories of Mum and Dad (blog)
Original item by Rob J Mann
Mon 15th Apr 2013 21:17
Great poem/performance at the Tudor - me & Natalie both thought you were really good. Kinda suprised given you said performing might not be your thing.
Real conviction and a sort of "history of our days" vibe - good stuff.
I hope I didn't cause any upset when I was on. The lights were pretty dazzling on stage and I couldn't see - just heard what I thought was one of the hecklers. Natalie told me afterwards you were telling one of them off for me...so sorry if I said the wrong thing.
Hope you read next time out.
Mon 15th Apr 2013 20:56
Ha! This made me laugh Larisa!
Comment is about I Am the Chair A day in the life of comp (blog)
Original item by Larisa Rzhepishevska
Mon 15th Apr 2013 20:31
I liked this Phillip..
Comment is about HMG and me. (blog)
Original item by Philip Fletcher
Mon 15th Apr 2013 20:25
Oh now then..there is nothing quite like a real letter is there?..Gasping letterbox is such a good line Ian.
A lovely read too (smiley face inserted lol )
Comment is about Waiting For Miss Write (blog)
Original item by Ian Whiteley
Mon 15th Apr 2013 20:22
Really enjoyed the scene you have painted here..
Very surreal which I really like. :)
Comment is about her tears (blog)
Original item by jan oskar hansen
Mon 15th Apr 2013 18:02
Would that be the same Pinochet befriended by Lady T? Hmm.
Comment is about Chilean poet Neruda's remains exhumed in murder inquiry (article)
Mon 15th Apr 2013 18:00
70 years from the end of the calendar year in which the author died, according to my book on copyright and IPR. Was 50 before 1996 act brought it in line with rest of Europe.
Her funeral is being hijacked by the Tory government out of desperation at their plight, in the hope that it will provide a kind of 'Falklands factor', in my view.
Labour can hardly claim too much moral high ground on this though, as her legacy informed Blair's weltanschauung, which still seems to inform the present leadership's.
What would St Francis have made of her using his material outside Number 10?
I agree wholeheartedly with Laura's observation about spending so much when we are cutting, for example, disability benefits.
I defend the right's right to its view of her, but deplore the insensitivity to those people whose views are shaped by their experiences of life under her, particularly in the blighted north. She is not Churchill.
And, should son mark even be allowed into the UK after he got his mumsie to use (abuse?) her office to solicit financial favours over dodgy goverment arms sales?
Mon 15th Apr 2013 17:37
You're entitled to your view, MC. But just so there's no misunderstanding, I was living for most of the 80s in Surrey, albeit working for a leftish newspaper. During that time I felt I was in an occupied country, occupied by the right and their newspapers that demonised and caricatured any opposition. Two tribes? Thatcher greased things so that her son could make money, there's no getting away from that, and insisted that he inherit her husband's baronetcy. Not a shining example, really, of anything except how to make money without really working for it. Which brings us back to the bankers ... I might add that I greatly admire Churchill as a war leader and as an orator whose words still send shivers down the spine, and indeed, bring tears to the eyes. It deeply saddens me as a Briton that the staging of this funeral suggests that Thatcher was his equal. It is a stain on this country.
Mon 15th Apr 2013 16:45
Speaking out of my arse?
It is medically reported that there are less germs in the rectum than the mouth. I feel the truth of that when on the receiving end of your less polite observations.
Mon 15th Apr 2013 16:42
Only the most seriously humour-deficient mindset would have failed to see the funny side of that! Thank heavens we Brits. still
have that famous reputation to fall back on.
Mon 15th Apr 2013 16:37
No probs re: comment upon schadenfreude. I can understand your position, mine being somewhat different is bye the bye.
Besides I can always be relied upon to waffle out an opinion. Hehe
Glad you liked my latest - thx. 11 elections - crickey!
Comment is about John Coopey (poet profile)
Mon 15th Apr 2013 16:30
A very readable personal perspective. I saw things from a different one here in London and the South, especially with regard to protest and violence when it seemed that hardly a week went by without someone demanding more - or refusing to accept the word "no" (the latter was never popular after the era of the "swinging/permissive 60s). It seemed that if something couldn't be got on demand then mob force and intimidation came next...whatever the interest or employment..as unions flexed their muscle while prohibitive practices were confronted (print workers working a few hours for a full day's pay was one example). Then there were the dockers (jobs for the boys only!!)...when container traffic was rapidly growing and the old London docks were having to give way to the new container ports down river. It was a time of massive sea-change and it needed a firm, often harsh, hand at the wheel of government, however unpalatable that became to many who were not able to adapt or prepared see their way of life dismantled by the force of unstoppable change and progress in a comparatively brief period of our social history.
The one "constant" at any "demo" were the banners of
the Socialist Workers Party - a double-dip oxymoron,
if ever there was one!
Mon 15th Apr 2013 15:55
Howdy again Chris
Aye, Merry Hell are playing Wallasey this Sunday chuck. I don't think I'll be going along as will be having a late one Saturday supporting John the Baptist in Wigan. Will be needing me kip before work on Monday :) I know Bob would love to see y'all there though :)
You are bang on re John Smith. I was absolutely gutted when he died. For me, that really was the end of a genuine Labour party. It's been a sham ever since - not for the working class in the slightest, it's in name only. For 'New' Labour read 'Blue' Labour.
Aye, thanks for respecting my views, and you know that I always have time for yours, because I know that you do actually sit and think these things through, you do actually research stuff, and you form your opinions based on that research and thinking. I get so bloody tired of people regurgitating nonsense all the time!
Take good care anyway - hopefully see you and Nat soon
Mon 15th Apr 2013 15:42
who said i paid for the tea-cake - i'm a yorkshireman - if it's too expensive it don't get bought :-)
Mon 15th Apr 2013 15:40
thanks for commenting on 'old tyke blues' my day did improve sufficiently to keep on going - but somtimes it's a struggle :-)
Comment is about Harry O`N eill (poet profile)
Original item by Harry O`N eill
Mon 15th Apr 2013 15:38
thanks for the comment on 'old tyke blus' i'm thinking of putting it to a blues tune - so better be careful i don;t infringe any copyrights on the song you mention from your childhood
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