Isobel

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Tue 17th Sep 2013 15:07

Jane - you are right that this is not about extermination - the similarity arises from the way human beings are treated like cattle - there is no differentiation in the way they are defaced - there is no expression of individuality. For me that makes it doubly disturbing.

The girls appear to be in agreement to what is being done to them - and yes they have been paid. They have been chosen because they come from a social group most desperate for money; the piece is supposed to explore economic exploitation. Perhaps the artist and the Tate believe that less of a public backlash would be felt from choosing this type of victim.

Laura, I'm glad you are going to watch this video and add your opinion. I see you as the feminist of all feminists, though for me it's not even about the subjugation of women. I think I'd feel exactly the same way it was a row of young boys being abused. The sad fact is though - that it's women who end up selling their bodies for drugs - most men take different routes to fund the habit.

Comment is about Turning Over Tables (blog)

Original item by Isobel

Graham Sherwood

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Tue 17th Sep 2013 15:06

Interesting and reflective Greg. Isn't it strange how we tell ourselves "when I retire I'll" etc etc, and then not seem to have the time to do them.

I still have journeys to make and books to write and heros to converse with. Strange how some of our heroes appear just the same as us when we finally get to speak to them.

Remember, journeys do not always have to be tangible. I think I've thought of a new subject for a poem now!

Anyway, keep on keeping on Greg. Always a good 'un to read.

Graham

Comment is about Phoenix (blog)

Original item by Greg Freeman

Laura Taylor

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Tue 17th Sep 2013 14:45

Ha :) Enjoyed this. Another one here who can't bear the word 'no'.

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Laura Taylor

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Tue 17th Sep 2013 14:39

Oh well Is, at least you got a poem out of it eh? ;)

Flippancy aside, I still haven't watched the video, and until I do, I can't make comment.

Will try to watch tonight and get back to this though.

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Laura Taylor

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Tue 17th Sep 2013 14:38

Great poem, tying the idea of the 'problem' cuckoo to the problems they 'cause'.

Agree with Greg, rhythm is excellent, and I really like the idea behind it.

These lines are really stand-out:

Tie blooms to the railings and leave them to wither,
to remind us we die if we need to remember.

Three days for the flowers to wilt
One less in the swelt of the summer
Deadheads bow brown in a semblance of grief
For the blood and bone bedlam that played out beneath.


Brilliant.

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Patricia &Stefan wilde

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Tue 17th Sep 2013 14:08

Stunning!xx

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jane wilcock

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Tue 17th Sep 2013 14:04

Well actually Isobel, I wasn't thinking about Nazi camps as that puts me in mind of extermination. This seems more about exploitation and autonomy. The girls may have approved of the extra money and tattoo but its the exploitation of usually vulnerable individuals from poor relationship backgrounds that concerncs me and how much in control of themselves they are especially as labelled as drug addicted. However, unlike Francine I have not watched the full videoand there is a point about starting on a road...

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jane wilcock

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Tue 17th Sep 2013 13:58

Thankyou so much for your thoughts. Mines gone from Bolton to London, Greg, so we may have passed on weeping motorways.

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andy n

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Tue 17th Sep 2013 12:56

has to be one of my favourites of yours that, nick. the imagery in the first few lines for example is breathtaking but it's a strong piece all round - would like to hear you read this sometime defo

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andy n

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Tue 17th Sep 2013 12:55

bet that took you ages. top stuff

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andy n

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Tue 17th Sep 2013 12:55

that last line really hit me, John.

excellent stuff

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andy n

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Tue 17th Sep 2013 12:54

like the thought behind this, Dave.

top stuff m8

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Frances Spurrier

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Tue 17th Sep 2013 12:52

'rain'? 'Sunlight'?' 'Dust'? Is someone claiming to have copyright on those words? They're going to have to be suing a heck a lot of people - including me and Louis Macneice.

Comment is about Forward prize contender in new plagiarism row (article)

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andy n

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Tue 17th Sep 2013 12:48

interesting case this one guys. when i first read it, i didn't actually twig it was as the structure is different rather than just a straight copy instead threading lines in and out of the poem or poems itself re-arranging them somewhat in almost a david bowie like fashion.

i know matt from old, he was my uni teacher some years back at bolton uni so feel sorry for him there, but it does raise a totally different legal background.

makes you wonder if he would have got away with it if he had mentioned it at the beginning.

Comment is about Forward prize contender in new plagiarism row (article)

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Frances Spurrier

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Tue 17th Sep 2013 12:47

We'll have to persuade him to the Pembrokeshire Coast Path next.

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Brian Wake

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Tue 17th Sep 2013 12:26

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Brian Wake

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Tue 17th Sep 2013 12:25

I'm only sleeping.

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Steve Rudd

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Tue 17th Sep 2013 10:54

Hello Harry and thanks for this

Yes, I have been smitten with mountains ever since my first encounter with the Scottish Highlands, walking across Knoydart at the age of 17. It's impossible to see the hills of Arran without being moved to a sense of something outside our normal humdrum life - whether you see them from the ferry as you come over from Ardrossan or whether you see them close up.

This particular day I was sitting at North Sannox waiting for my wife and the dog to come back down the glen from Coire Na Cioche or whatever it's called (The Devil's Punchbowl corrie underneath the Maiden's Breast) and the mist was doing a "now you see them now you don't" act on the high tors of Cir Mhor and North Goatfell, and suddenly that Zen koan about "first there is a mountain then there is no mountain, then there is" popped into my head.

Comment is about Glen Sannox (blog)

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Isobel

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Tue 17th Sep 2013 08:21

Beautiful Jane. I love the way the title contrasts so sharply to the emotions of the poem. You expect joy, release, happiness but the poem delivers nostalgia and more than a little sadness at your loss. I love the effect of the unspoken here. xx

And fathers don’t show it
And mothers don’t say it.
We travel back in torrential dusk –
She’s gone

Comment is about Independence Day (blog)

Original item by jane wilcock

Isobel

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Tue 17th Sep 2013 08:15

Thank you Jane. Thank you Francine for feeling things the way I feel them. I couldn't watch beyond the first few seconds of the video because I felt so sick with anger - but yes, the treatment of the Jews definitely came to mind.

The big issue here for me is that British taxpayers money has been used to buy this work and we are currently displaying it in a prominent art gallery to children and students. What message are we putting out to future generations? One that I thought we'd put to bed with Auschwitz. And in the name of art...

Comment is about Turning Over Tables (blog)

Original item by Isobel

Francine

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Tue 17th Sep 2013 04:38

I read the ideas behind it and watched the video. I find it sadistic, degrading, and unconscionable. How can this be called art when in fact he is exploiting the very ideas he wants to explore - and use as a metaphor! As I watched the video, I couldn't help but be reminded of the Nazi camps!

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winston plowes

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Mon 16th Sep 2013 23:39

Greg Freeman

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Mon 16th Sep 2013 23:37

Thanks for your comments on Loire and Phoenix, Isobel. Phoenix is named after a campaign group that is trying to establish a permanent live music and arts venue in Woking. In the meantime they meet in an empty shop next to the JobCentre. I read it there tonight, to a small but attentive audience. Your campaign seems a worthy cause, too.

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Solar Winds

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Mon 16th Sep 2013 23:34

'oh and btw'(haha)is that your art work of Mr Zimmerman-if 'tis-'tis cool!cya soon.

Love Solar.x

Comment is about ODE TO DYLAN (blog)

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Patricia &Stefan wilde

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Mon 16th Sep 2013 23:22

ditto all previous comments.Well done Jane.xx

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Patricia &Stefan wilde

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Mon 16th Sep 2013 23:21

you are a glutton for punishment Solar-but if it helped,then what can we say-except thanks darling.

xx

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Solar Winds

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Mon 16th Sep 2013 23:10

had a bad office day Patricia and Stef so I came back for another read to lift my spirits-you two are MAD,but I love your sense of humour-aww please do something similar-soon!x

Comment is about Mel Brooks-eatcha spoofin' heart out (blog)

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Solar Winds

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Mon 16th Sep 2013 23:05

whhhhat!!! no comments-I love that 'oh and btw'touch-sooo funny.I think we have the same sense of humour!x

Comment is about ODE TO DYLAN (blog)

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Solar Winds

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Mon 16th Sep 2013 22:52

never boring Jean,you judge yourself unfairly.Leave it to others to judge I find is the best way-cheers chuck-take care.x

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Solar Winds

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Mon 16th Sep 2013 22:45

this scene of you writing while bare arsed?any pikkys forthcoming of that? its only because I am doing a course on the male anatomy-HONEST!..;0)x

Comment is about I hate John Cooper Clark.. (blog)

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Solar Winds

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Mon 16th Sep 2013 22:40

the whole poem,title and all,go together perfectly -really enjoyed this one Jane,and always nice to have you back on board.My very best regards to you

x

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jean lucy thompson

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Mon 16th Sep 2013 22:36

to everyone ty very much appreciated :)

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Solar Winds

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Mon 16th Sep 2013 22:35

Ian,no pun intended,but this is one cool poem.x

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jean lucy thompson

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Mon 16th Sep 2013 22:34

Haha think the translated version would be pretty boring :) thanx for the lovely comments and like your name btw oh your poems too

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Greg Freeman

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Mon 16th Sep 2013 21:40

Very effective and well-crafted poem, Jane. Liked "screwdriver rain", "the past, present, and future knitted", "torrential dusk", and the parents' reactions. My sister-in-law experienced the same thing this weekend, journeying from Brighton to Manchester, both children now gone.

Comment is about Independence Day (blog)

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Katypoetess

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Mon 16th Sep 2013 20:43

Thank you Solar! It did take some time writing it! : )

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Katypoetess

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Mon 16th Sep 2013 20:41

Thank you! That's the end of that poetry collection...now I'm starting another ! : ) xx

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Katypoetess

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Mon 16th Sep 2013 20:39

Thank you for your comment - yes, I do dark poetry indeed...glad you liked, Katy x

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jane wilcock

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Mon 16th Sep 2013 20:29

I feel sorry for shrine trees, stood years upon years with ribbons and photos of grief even when the spring has turned again.

Comment is about Cuckoo (blog)

Original item by John Darwin

jane wilcock

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Mon 16th Sep 2013 20:26

I enjoyed this: we walk our own roads, it is out own tread upon the earth.

Comment is about Phoenix (blog)

Original item by Greg Freeman

jane wilcock

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Mon 16th Sep 2013 20:18

They should buy your poem and put it up next to it. It would be a much more significant and powerful statement - though the video should not exist I agree.

Comment is about Turning Over Tables (blog)

Original item by Isobel

Ian O'Brien

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Mon 16th Sep 2013 20:11

Sounds excellent! Sorry I couldn't make it - couldn't get away from work with the new term starting. Looks like I missed some brilliant work!

Comment is about September Collage Poem - The Sun (blog)

Original item by Stockport WoL

winston plowes

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Mon 16th Sep 2013 19:27

Liked the vividness of this Ian, a sad occasion well recorded in your words. Win

Comment is about She Wears Pink (blog)

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winston plowes

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Mon 16th Sep 2013 18:28

Hi Julian, Yes, unfortunately it does. I was aware of this but it was more important not to clash with other much closer events in Sowerby, Todmorden and Halifax and the venue also only had limited days.

Comment is about Char March first guest at Shindig launch in Hebden Bridge (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

David Subacchi

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Mon 16th Sep 2013 18:26

Thank you so much Cynthia.

Comment is about HOME TOWN (blog)

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Solar Winds

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Mon 16th Sep 2013 16:40

Mr Wilde on a motorbike!?....LOOK OUT EVERYONE! nice to see a biker poem Alan-cheers.x

Comment is about Weekend Wanderer (blog)

Original item by alan barlow

Solar Winds

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Mon 16th Sep 2013 16:36

is there a translated version please Jean? haha.
poor old Mr Finn.He isnt Huckleberrys Dad by any chance?...;0)thanks for the 'ard wuk.As previously stated I love the different approaches.'Kep um cummin!x

Comment is about Mickey Finn(Awld Lancy Poem) Anonymoose (blog)

Original item by jean lucy thompson

Harry O'Neill

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Mon 16th Sep 2013 16:36


It`s not what you do, Cynthia, it`s the way that you do it...even this kind of deadly stuff

I particularly like:

`upon slabs of self-interest.`

Comment is about Metaphor (blog)

Original item by Cynthia Buell Thomas

Solar Winds

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Mon 16th Sep 2013 16:22

awwww! I was quite moved by this fabulous poem Jean.I love all your different approaches to poetry,I'm not keen when poets write in a 'one paced style way'.

Please do keep them coming-love-Solar.x

Comment is about Was This the Plan (blog)

Original item by jean lucy thompson

Solar Winds

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Mon 16th Sep 2013 16:18

Starfish,my best wishes to you too!I love how you see this poem..very interesting view-

thanks so much.x

Jean,nice to have you submit such a lovely comment
I have just recently started viewing your work and find it all of a very good quality.Hope to see much more in the future.Best wishes to you also.x

Comment is about Tower block,top floor (blog)

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